# Should Michelle Obama be silenced? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 20, 2008, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-obama-be-silenced/464439 "2008-09-20T15:39:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-obama-be-silenced/464439/41 "2008-09-20T20:55:56Z")
How, exactly, do you mean “silenced”? :dubious: \ ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-obama-be-silenced/464439/42 "2008-09-20T21:27:00Z")
I’m almost completely indifferent to her. I haven’t given much thought to her speeches, since she’s not running for any office, but now that you’ve talked about it in this thread, I appreciate the way she talks sensibly instead of being a rah-rah cheerleader, go-USA type. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-obama-be-silenced/464439/43 "2008-09-21T00:10:13Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > Just please Please PLEASE don’t let McCain win this election!!! I can’t believe it’s even close. I think that’s the way most of us feel. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-obama-be-silenced/464439/44 "2008-09-21T00:22:30Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > I’m having a hard time being really specific because it’s an \*\*impression \*\*more than anything specific she says. Sort of like…can you give specific examples as to how Barrack Obama is electrifying and charismatic? It’s hard to be specific with intangibles. > > But let me give it a shot: > > I saw her speech in North Carolina (on tv) and the words on paper don’t quite convey her tone (I’ll try to find a youtube). But she comes across as negative and bitter. When I watch Barrack I find myself full of hope for the future, but when she speaks I get a feeling of hopeless. Maybe it’s just me…and I hope it is. But she just strikes me as extremely polarizing and I am worried about her impact on the campaign. Look, don’t you see the obvious complementary relationship between Michelle’s message and Barack’s? On the one hand you have the **problems,** and on the other hand you have the **hope** of a day when what Michelle is saying will no longer be true. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-obama-be-silenced/464439/45 "2008-09-21T00:31:01Z")
> [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > There was a soundbite from Michelle Obama’s convention speech that I heard played fairly heavily. It was the part where she said “you treat people with respect even if you don’t know them - even it you disagree with them.” Or something like that - I’m going off memory. > > Isn’t a certain level of respect taken for granted? My grade school teachers gave lectures about how you should respect others even if you don’t like them. I managed to pick this up. If I was able to pick it up - no points for Obama doing the same. > > Since I feel that a sense of respect should be implicit - the fact that she said something like that seemed insulting. What I heard her say was, "Even though My husband and I are in a higher social caste we still manage to respect those who I feel are beneath us, even though we don’t necessarily have to. " Doubtless, it wasn’t what the speech writer intended, but its what I took away. > > The line was poorly written, though somehow well-received by its audience. Which made me question the audience. Which made me wonder if I really want to vote for these people. Say what? Has it occurred to you that perhaps, just perhaps Michelle Obama, her parents, her siblings, and the people in her extended family and community did not receive that respect that is supposed to be “implicit” and so therefore have the need to not only tell others that they are aware that such things should be implicit and that they can and do act respectfully? Michelle et al couldn’t take that respect for granted–it wasn’t granted to them. Hello? Hell, they didn’t get respect and it wasn’t for any disagreement–it was due to the color of their skin. Have you lived your life in a cave? IMO, Michelle is a class act through and through–she is NOT a politician (and thank god). IMO she effects people through sheer force of character. I do not know her personally, but I feel that I see the genuine Michelle on stage. This is no small thing. She is a huge asset to Barack and the campaign. IMO, the OP is letting her fears (and it is completely understandable. I can’t stand the tension at times myself. I just hope he wins and that he doesn’t get assassinated) color her perception of MO. Suburban white woman, btw. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-obama-be-silenced/464439/46 "2008-09-21T02:40:11Z")
> [@DJ\_Motorbike](#): > > There was a soundbite from Michelle Obama’s convention speech that I heard played fairly heavily. It was the part where she said “you treat people with respect even if you don’t know them - even it you disagree with them.” Or something like that - I’m going off memory. > > Isn’t a certain level of respect taken for granted? My grade school teachers gave lectures about how you should respect others even if you don’t like them. I managed to pick this up. If I was able to pick it up - no points for Obama doing the same. > > Since I feel that a sense of respect should be implicit - the fact that she said something like that seemed insulting. What I heard her say was, "Even though My husband and I are in a higher social caste we still manage to respect those who I feel are beneath us, even though we don’t necessarily have to. " Doubtless, it wasn’t what the speech writer intended, but its what I took away. > > The line was poorly written, though somehow well-received by its audience. Which made me question the audience. Which made me wonder if I really want to vote for these people. Thanks for reminding me that the people in the US get exactly the kind of govt they deserve. ---
**Author:** ![frankzafka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/49beb7/32.png) [@frankzafka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/frankzafka)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-obama-be-silenced/464439/47 "2008-09-21T03:05:15Z")
The people debating whether or not their friends’ opinions will affect their vote are moot points. What the election hangs on are the 30% or so of the electorate who are undecided. That said the majority of these folks are white and any perception of anger, abrasiveness, or a sense of entitlement will turn many more of these voters away. The Obama camp realizes this and seems to have kept as much of the spotlight off her as has been possible. Personally not an Obama supporter but don’t care whether Michelle is purple or plaid. She’ll fill a largely ceremonial role as First Lady supporting a few pet causes. Nothing more, nothing less. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-obama-be-silenced/464439/48 "2008-09-21T03:11:41Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Thanks for reminding me that the people in the US get exactly the kind of govt they deserve. Hey now, we didn’t all interpret her comment that way. I just assumed she was saying that you can disagree with what someone says, but respect them–which is a pretty safe politician-y thing to say. But on further analysis, **eleanorigby** ’s observations–about how Michelle Obama and her family and many that she’s known–have never been able to take something as basic as respect for granted also seems spot on. Either way, I don’t see how one can parse it as her seeing herself as not needing to respect people “lower” than her. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-obama-be-silenced/464439/49 "2008-09-21T03:32:14Z")
I also don’t see why the Obama campaing would want to silence her. The “proud” comment was truly horrible and Obama somehow slick willied out of that one. Her “and I’m talking about me” line recently was pretty funny. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-obama-be-silenced/464439/50 "2008-09-21T04:18:26Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > The fact is she is polarizing. You are mistaken. Michelle Obama is not polarizing; everyone knows that. Look it up. ---
**Author:** ![zuma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9c0ed/32.png) [@zuma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zuma)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-obama-be-silenced/464439/51 "2008-09-21T04:38:49Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > I don’t know how it’s possible to twist that statement out of shape. “For the first time in my adult life I am proud of my country,” has a pretty clear meaning. I don’t remember how the Obama damage-control team spun it, but I don’t think anybody bought it who wasn’t already inclined to WANT to believe it. Well, let’s at least get the actual quote right. “For the first time in my lifetime, I am _really_ proud of my country”. I don’t know how much of a difference the “really” makes, but at least give her credit for that. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-obama-be-silenced/464439/52 "2008-09-21T04:39:28Z")
In his acceptance speech, John McCain said that he fell in love with his country while imprisoned in Viet Nam. Should he be castigated for not having loved his country as a youth? That would, of course, be about as stupid as getting upset about Michelle Obama’s comment about her pride for her country. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-obama-be-silenced/464439/53 "2008-09-21T12:54:51Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You are mistaken. Michelle Obama is not polarizing; everyone knows that. Look it up. And with the 50th post, we’re back in the same place. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-obama-be-silenced/464439/54 "2008-09-21T23:55:29Z")
> [@zuma](#): > > Well, let’s at least get the actual quote right. > > “For the first time in my lifetime, I am _really_ proud of my country”. > > I don’t know how much of a difference the “really” makes, but at least give her credit for that. The “really” is in some youtube clips, and not in others. Did she give the speech more than once? Anyway, it doesn’t really matter. Either way, It seems like she’s scolding me. I don’t like it, but I still have a lot of respect and admiration for her. Hearing her say that just brought her down in my mind from a superhuman pedestal, and made me realize that she’s human, and capable of harboring nasty feelings just like the rest of us. Barack hasn’t fallen off that pedestal yet, though. I don’t even really care what his policy positions are, because the strength of his character is so appealing. His message still comes through clearly. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-obama-be-silenced/464439/55 "2008-09-22T00:03:10Z")
> [@zuma](#): > > “For the first time in my lifetime, I am _really_ proud of my country”. To call that wrong is to claim jingoism is right. A true patriot is not satisfied with the way his country is; he recognizes that it can be better and wants to make it better. A patriot loves his country, sure, but he isn’t willfully blind about that love; it’s an informed, thoughtful, dedicated love. To suggest that no improvement is possible, that this is the best we can ever do and that any change can only make things worse, is not just pessimistic, it’s silly. Yet that’s the attitude one has to take in order to criticize MO’s statement. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-obama-be-silenced/464439/56 "2008-09-22T03:15:31Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > To call that wrong is to claim jingoism is right. No, I think the inference is that she was \*never \*proud of America before people started voting for her husband. That isn’t saying jingoism is right. I think it is reasonable to expect people to find at least one other reason to be proud of America. I don’t agree with the inference, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-obama-be-silenced/464439/57 "2008-09-22T04:32:12Z")
The thing we often forget, is that for many people out there, it’s even wrong to seek out a reason to be proud of the country, they feel you’re just supposed to be, just because. No matter what. > [@Mosier](#): > > Anyway, it doesn’t really matter. Either way, It seems like she’s scolding me. I don’t like it, but I still have a lot of respect and admiration for her. Hearing her say that just brought her down in my mind from a superhuman pedestal, and made me realize that she’s human, and capable of harboring nasty feelings just like the rest of us. Barack hasn’t fallen off that pedestal yet, though. I don’t even really care what his policy positions are, because the strength of his character is so appealing. His message still comes through clearly. And **that** placing on a “superhuman pedestal” is a serious mistake to make for ANYONE’s supporter, because I don’t care who he or she is, they WILL come down from it… and then what happens to the value of the “message”? And forgive me if I sound scolding, but he IS running for President, where I must presume he intends to put those policy positions into action in all our lives. The emotional inspirational part of his message is important, nay, critical – but only to help motivate the nation to put those policies into effect. You need both good policy AND inspiring vision. Caring only about one and not the other does not get us there. I admire and support Obama, but have never expected him or Michelle to be anything but people – with insights and strengths AND weaknesses and failings. Hell, I’d be very wary of anyone who seemed too perfect, who never had to explain him/herself, who never said the wrong thing or else said something good the wrong way, or ever associated with a person that said/did anything wrong (hey, I even was a Clinton supporter – _both_ Clintons, so I obviously can ignore personal imperfection). OTOH, this next bit… > [@DJMotorBike](#): > > There was a soundbite from Michelle Obama’s convention speech that I heard played fairly heavily. It was the part where she said “you treat people with respect even if you don’t know them - even it you disagree with them.” Or something like that - I’m going off memory. > > Isn’t a certain level of respect taken for granted? My grade school teachers gave lectures about how you should respect others even if you don’t like them. I managed to pick this up. If I was able to pick it up - no points for Obama doing the same. > > Since I feel that a sense of respect should be implicit - the fact that she said something like that seemed insulting. What I heard her say was, "Even though My husband and I are in a higher social caste we still manage to respect those who I feel are beneath us, even though we don’t necessarily have to. " Doubtless, it wasn’t what the speech writer intended, but its what I took away. …absolutely baffles me as to how it could get interpreted that way. Never mind racial history, how in the ever-loving world is \*“you treat people with respect even if you don’t know them - even it you disagree with them” \* an arrogant or condescending statement?? If the audience cheered for it maybe it’s because they felt that yes, society has gone down to the point we need reminding of this (how’s the ratio of respect vs. obnoxiousness in the conduct we witness every day around us at school/work/on the commute?) If someone in a speech quotes the Golden Rule, is that condescending because that should be “understood” from childhood? ---
**Author:** ![constantine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@constantine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constantine)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-obama-be-silenced/464439/58 "2008-09-23T04:17:28Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > No, I think the inference is that she was \*never \*proud of America before people started voting for her husband. That isn’t saying jingoism is right. > > I think it is reasonable to expect people to find at least one other reason to be proud of America. Ok, maybe this thread is dead already, but I just learned about it from the IMHO thread. In any case, I agree with Lakai’s point. I am planning to vote for Obama, although I would not characterize myself as a super stronger supporter of his campaign. I have to say that I am stunned that Michelle Obama would say that she was never “really proud of her country” until her husband secured the Democratic nomination. I think it is an obnoxious, arrogant, stupid thing to say. Ok, so let’s go back to 2006, Michelle Obama finds NOTHING about America about which she could be “really proud.” Not the fact that the US has been, for over 200 years, at the forefront of protecting the right to free speech, and free thought, and freedom of religion. Not the fact that this is the country that invented the Internet, the transistor and the polio vaccine. Not the people who laid down their lives to fight tyranny in Europe and the Pacific. Not the U.S. University system, which is one of the greatest institutions for the development of knowledge in the history of the world. Not the fact that people are able to criticize the government without getting thrown into dungeons. Not the huge sums that Americans donate to charity. Not the amazing progress that the US has made in the last 40 years of the civil rights movement, to the point where we have had an African American secretary of state and an African American chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. Not that our system provides unprecedented freedoms to hundreds of millions of people: freedom to start a business and keep the fruits of their labor, freedom to worship whatever religion they chose, freedom to live wherever they chose. None of that makes her proud. But now that her husband is just a few steps away from being the leader of the entire country. Ok, well now, FOR THE FIRST TIME, she is really proud. She is entitled to her opinion of course. There is no requirement that you be “really proud” of America. It doesn’t mean your disloyal, or that you are a bad person. And, to the extent that being proud of America makes you blind to its faults, well that’s a serious problem too. But if you want MY VOTE. If you want me to decide that you should be the person who should run the whole executive branch of the government, then I want to believe that you understand both what needs improvement, but you also understand what is right with our system. And Michelle Obama’s comment suggests to me that she does NOT understand all that is good about our system. ---
**Author:** ![burundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@burundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burundi)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-obama-be-silenced/464439/59 "2008-09-23T13:15:27Z")
I heard Michelle Obama speak at a rally and was thoroughly impressed. Unlike most politicians and their wives, it seems like she _gets_ it. People who have followed the time-honored American formula—work hard, get an education and you’ll do okay—are struggling. Struggling with health care costs, child care costs, high gas prices, rising grocery costs, trying to save for retirement, making sure your kids get a good education…it’s not easy out here. It’s refreshing to hear someone acknowledge that. And it’s especially refreshing to me to see a candidate’s wife break out of the Stepford role and speak with her own distinctive voice. > [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Not everyone in this country is staunchly optimistic about America. I don’t believe this country is where it needs to be or even headed in the right direction. Exactly. Hell, yes, lots of us are disenchanted. That’s why Obama’s call for change resonates so loudly. ---
**Author:** ![constantine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@constantine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constantine)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2008, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-obama-be-silenced/464439/60 "2008-09-23T16:13:54Z")
> [@burundi](#): > > I heard Michelle Obama speak at a rally and was thoroughly impressed. Unlike most politicians and their wives, it seems like she _gets_ it. People who have followed the time-honored American formula—work hard, get an education and you’ll do okay—are struggling. Struggling with health care costs, child care costs, high gas prices, rising grocery costs, trying to save for retirement, making sure your kids get a good education…it’s not easy out here. It’s refreshing to hear someone acknowledge that. And it’s especially refreshing to me to see a candidate’s wife break out of the Stepford role and speak with her own distinctive voice. > Exactly. Hell, yes, lots of us are disenchanted. That’s why Obama’s call for change resonates so loudly. Fine, you think the country is going in the wrong direction. Dare I say that one of the things that I’m proud of, even “really proud of” about America is that we have a system where you, and I, just random, everyday people, get to vote on our leadership, and change it if we think they are taking us in the wrong direction. But I take Michelle Obama’s comment to be saying, in essence, the country was rotten to the core UNTIL lots of people decided that my husband should be the leader of the country. And I find that deeply troubling. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-obama-be-silenced/464439.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-michelle-obama-be-silenced/464439.md?page=4)