# Should Minorities Be Encourage to Assimiliate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 13, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-minorities-be-encourage-to-assimiliate/560511 "2010-11-13T01:17:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-minorities-be-encourage-to-assimiliate/560511/21 "2010-11-13T06:02:34Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Joke though it may be, this si a major source of American success. Indeed. Do I want immigrants to start acting like Ozzy and Harriet? No. Do I want them shut up in their own enclaves so they won’t spread cultural contamination? _No_—no more than I’d agree with them shutting _themselves_ out so those degenerate Yankees won’t affront _their_ purity. I want them to\* join in\*—America is very much a composite country, and I want to keep on _adding to it_. To take the best of what comes to us, and adopt it as our own. To add another scifi quote, "If we all reacted the same way, we’d be predictable, and there’s always more than one way to view a situation. What’s true for the group is also true for the individual. It’s simple: Overspecialize, and you breed in weakness. It’s slow death. " ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-minorities-be-encourage-to-assimiliate/560511/22 "2010-11-13T12:37:03Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Should immigrants from other countries or ethnic groups with distinctinve cultures be encourage to assimilate by speaking standard English, adopting American manners, and largely acting in public same the American middle class? Yes and no. [ul] [li]Learn English? Yes.[/li][li]Adopting manners? Lack of manners never helped anybody.[/li][li]Acting as the American Middle Class? I’d hope they had better manners than _that_![/li][li]Mostly–keep what is helpful from the US, in dealing with others here in the US, & dump the rest.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-minorities-be-encourage-to-assimiliate/560511/23 "2010-11-13T13:52:41Z")
Ethnic minorities keeping some of their own cultural traits? It’s chutzpah, dawg, that’s what it is. Now shaddup and give me another pilsener, another slice of pizza, and some of those nachos. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-minorities-be-encourage-to-assimiliate/560511/24 "2010-11-13T14:11:44Z")
I suppose people should do pretty well whatever they want most of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-minorities-be-encourage-to-assimiliate/560511/25 "2010-11-13T14:19:23Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > It’ll be done in three generations, one way or another, anyhow. This, and **Even Sven** , said what i think exactly. This is something that happens naturally and inevitably, and efforts to speed it up tend to fall somewhere on the “useless–\>inhumane” spectrum. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-minorities-be-encourage-to-assimiliate/560511/26 "2010-11-13T14:24:31Z")
What exactly are “American manners”? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-minorities-be-encourage-to-assimiliate/560511/27 "2010-11-13T15:14:42Z")
How do American middle class people act in public? I wanna know, because I’m not too sure I want the newcomers acting like fat, sloppy, rude, loudmouths… ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-minorities-be-encourage-to-assimiliate/560511/28 "2010-11-13T17:12:51Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This, and **Even Sven** , said what i think exactly. This is something that happens naturally and inevitably, and efforts to speed it up tend to fall somewhere on the “useless–\>inhumane” spectrum. I think it should be able to work itself out naturally, and would. But the depends, I think, on making sure that no one culture is able to immigrate in large waves. There are more than a couple of areas in the U.S.—hell, in CA alone—where you can go about your life as if you were living in Mexico or other Spanish-speaking society from points south. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-minorities-be-encourage-to-assimiliate/560511/29 "2010-11-13T17:53:43Z")
Yeah, so what, Magellan. Same thing’s been true in Chinatowns the country over, and up in Wisconsin, people used to spend their whole life speaking German. > **[Cultural assimilation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_assimilation)** > > Cultural assimilation is the process in which a minority group or culture comes to resemble a society's majority group or assimilate the values, behaviors, and beliefs of another group whether fully or partially. > The different types of cultural assimilation include full assimilation and forced assimilation. Full assimilation is the more prevalent of the two, as it occurs spontaneously. When used as a political ideology, assimilationism refers to governmental policies of deliberately assimilati... I wasn’t joking: by the third generation, _there being no excluding factors_, they become assimilated. (The model still works for black Americans, provided you use the launching mark as the Civil Rights Movement.) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-minorities-be-encourage-to-assimiliate/560511/30 "2010-11-13T18:25:56Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I think it should be able to work itself out naturally, and would. But the depends, I think, on making sure that no one culture is able to immigrate in large waves. There are more than a couple of areas in the U.S.—hell, in CA alone—where you can go about your life as if you were living in Mexico or other Spanish-speaking society from points south. Yes, and in the 19th century, there were plenty of newspapers written in Italian in US cities, and there were plenty of people terrified of how Italians would never assimilate. They, too, were wrong. It doesn’t depend on making sure that people don’t immigrate in large waves: it depends on three generations passing. First generation: keep the culture of their childhood toa large degree. Often monolingual. Second generation: Mix home culture and school culture/peer culture, but lean heavily toward the latter. Often bilingual, very rarely monolingual in parent’s language. Third generation: Very strongly assimilated. Often monolingual in local language. That’s how it’s worked in our country for always, and that’s probably how it’s worked since there have been cities. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-minorities-be-encourage-to-assimiliate/560511/31 "2010-11-13T18:37:46Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > There are more than a couple of areas in the U.S.—hell, in CA alone—where you can go about your life as if you were living in Mexico or other Spanish-speaking society from points south. Again, what do I care? There are other parts of California where you can go about your life as if you never left the summer of love. If you want to act like a hippy or a Mexican, go for it. Have fun! Neither Spanish nor love beads can hurt me. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-minorities-be-encourage-to-assimiliate/560511/32 "2010-11-13T19:11:07Z")
Yeah, I don’t worry about the slow, mild Hispanicization of the US as much as I worry about those who fear it. I think we should be teaching both languages in school, & embrace our position in both the Anglosphere & Latinoamérica. And assimilation goes both ways in the best cases. It’s useful to adopt technologies without regard to their origin. Food is a technology. So’s clothing. So’s science. Should we ignore modern science & philosophy as “too German”? ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-minorities-be-encourage-to-assimiliate/560511/33 "2010-11-13T19:59:05Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Should immigrants from other countries or ethnic groups with distinctinve cultures be encourage to assimilate by speaking standard English, adopting American manners, and largely acting in public same the American middle class? Re English: Only if we want immigrants to have opportunities to go to the better colleges, get a great job, and be successful should be encourage them to master English. If we want immigrants to be marginalized, we encourage them, or demotivate them so they do NOT learn English. Re manners: America is a big place with diverse “manners”, depending where you go. If you are living in a place where adapting to the local “manners” will assist your immigrant family to succeed, then go for it. Unless, you don’t want to. In that case, accept the consequences. Re acting in public: If by this you mean following the laws, being respectful of others, then sure, why not? American culture is already diverse. Even among the middle class. Your phrasing “the same as” is an impossibility. Respect goes both ways. ---
**Author:** ![compassionate\_warrior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8edcca/32.png) [@compassionate\_warrior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/compassionate_warrior)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-minorities-be-encourage-to-assimiliate/560511/34 "2010-11-13T20:06:25Z")
How did forced assimilation get into the discussion? Forced assimilation of indigenous people is illegal under international law. I don’t know about other minorities. The heading of the thread says, “minorities”, but the OP’s statement mentions only immigrants. There are non-immigrant minorities, I just thought I’d point that out. I like the suggestion about members of the majority learning immigrants’ languages (Spanish, or whatever). Foreign language study and learning about other customs and world views is very enriching. It’s important and useful in today’s globalized economy. Many universities have an ethnic studies requirement. That requirement is there for a reason. The better we understand each other as peoples, the better we’ll be able to get along, and the more harmonious the world will be. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-minorities-be-encourage-to-assimiliate/560511/35 "2010-11-13T21:44:02Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > You mean like circumcision? I mean like when men pin their preteen daughters down and “circumcise” them with broken glass. If you are making the point that circumcision as it is practiced on male infants in the West is mutilation, I would have to agree. As far as I can tell it seems to be common for cultural reasons. However, when it happens in the West, it isn’t an assimilation issue. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-minorities-be-encourage-to-assimiliate/560511/36 "2010-11-13T22:36:43Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Yes, and in the 19th century, there were plenty of newspapers written in Italian in US cities, and there were plenty of people terrified of how Italians would never assimilate. They, too, were wrong. It doesn’t depend on making sure that people don’t immigrate in large waves: it depends on three generations passing. Heck, in the 19th century the Know Nothing Party got terrified of the waves of Irish immigrants and they spoke English. (Although they were damn Papists.) ---
**Author:** ![AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-minorities-be-encourage-to-assimiliate/560511/37 "2010-11-14T07:22:09Z")
> [@](#): > > While I believe that all ethnic groups should maintain their native cultures in America, I do think they need to learn to read/write and understand English. Don’t you find it ironic as all get out that the very same people who are all " they need to learn English and “assimulate”" are the very same people who lamet losses of places like Little Italy or the towns where people only spoke French or Swedish or Welsh. Or they would KILL to have their kid bilingal in another language? ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-minorities-be-encourage-to-assimiliate/560511/38 "2010-11-14T07:59:48Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Well, they or more likely their children should learn English for the sake of practicality (and no, I oppose making English the “official language” of the US or any such nonsense). And they should obey the law and avoid harming others obviously. And they should _broadly_ conform to American manners in public - the old “when in Rome do as the Romans do” principle. But outside of that I have no reason to care if they prefer robes over pants or like to celebrate on different days or eat different foods or have a holiday where they dress up like a dragon instead of Santa Claus. This whole question is hilarious. Now someone stop me if history says I am wrong here. “American culture” is defined by a class of people descended largely from immigrants to this continent; many (but not all) of these immigrant ancestors came here to invade the continent and displaced the original inhabitants by means of disease, rape and/or mass murder (anyone want to say that history contradicts me on this?); and furthermore, American culture is in fact evolving (perish the thought!!). Okay, with that having been established… why didn’t the settlers who came to America assimilate into the Native American culture? They came here and forced the natives to accept their invader culture; but now the new (fraudulently) self-described “natives” of America don’t want anyone coming along to change anything. When people talk about “assimilate” that comes across as nothing more than a code word for “act white, talk white, and worship the white-is-alright mindset”. Back in the day this is what got us “victory relish” and nowadays this is what gets us things like racial profiling (of non-whites): if you don’t look and act the norm you are not American. Ah yes, I know: conquerors keepers, conquered weepers? ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-minorities-be-encourage-to-assimiliate/560511/39 "2010-11-14T09:58:14Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > …circumcision as it is practiced on male infants in the West… It’s not “in the West”. It’s “in North America”. In Western Europe, non-Jewish and non-Muslim male infants are usually _not_ circumcised, and I believe that Western Europe is just as much “the west” as USA and Canada are. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-minorities-be-encourage-to-assimiliate/560511/40 "2010-11-14T12:42:09Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > This whole question is hilarious. > > Now someone stop me if history says I am wrong here. > > “American culture” is defined by a class of people descended largely from immigrants to this continent; many (but not all) of these immigrant ancestors came here to invade the continent and displaced the original inhabitants by means of disease, rape and/or mass murder (anyone want to say that history contradicts me on this?); and furthermore, American culture is in fact evolving (perish the thought!!). > > Okay, with that having been established… why didn’t the settlers who came to America assimilate into the Native American culture? They came here and forced the natives to accept their invader culture; but now the new (fraudulently) self-described “natives” of America don’t want anyone coming along to change anything. > > When people talk about “assimilate” that comes across as nothing more than a code word for “act white, talk white, and worship the white-is-alright mindset”. Back in the day this is what got us “victory relish” and nowadays this is what gets us things like racial profiling (of non-whites): if you don’t look and act the norm you are not American. > > Ah yes, I know: conquerors keepers, conquered weepers? There was no real single american indian culture. The closest thing to it would have been the loose coalition of tribes roughly called the 5 Nations which existed basically in New York State and lopping into a small area of Canada, Vermont, Massachusets, Connecticut and Pennsylvania as tribes moved around their normal ranges. It was more a NATO type organization, not a single entity like the Mass Bay Colony. We did what the indians themselves were doing anyway. If you look into the history of just New England itself, tribes had a much different viewpoint of land ownership, and did war between each other for control of areas to use the resources present. As a rough example, the tribe that currently lives on the reservation that is where Foxwoods Casino is presently located isn’t the tribe that was originally there 300 years ago. There are 2 federally recognized tribes in CT now, Mohegan and Mashantucket Pequot. Historically there were Mahican, Mohegan, Minisink, Pequot, Nipmuk and Quiripe [all subsets of Alagonquin] \ Besides, it really doesnt matter. After 200 years of WASP domination, we are the dominant culture of the US - with admixtures of new cultures coming in from 1850 through 1950 and blending into our little melting pot, what we have is the dominant culture. English is the generally accepted unofficial working language of hte government [a predominant amount of governmental paperwork has always been done in english, the originating documents of our government are in english] and it was an afterthought to start adding documentation in additional languages, and it took special legislation to add documentation in additional languages. People looking to move into this country need to suck it up and learn english, and adopt the societal norms of behavior that conform to the general culture. What they do in their own homes as long as it breaks no laws is moot. By the way, I am functional in 2 languages besides english. Suck it up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-minorities-be-encourage-to-assimiliate/560511.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-minorities-be-encourage-to-assimiliate/560511.md?page=3)