# Should Mom-and-Pops That Forgo Gay Weddings Be Destroyed? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 3, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716 "2015-04-03T16:37:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/221 "2015-04-07T00:10:47Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > If expecting people to leave you in peace is being treated differently, what kind of 1984 Big Brother dystopia do you dream about? We’ve ventured too far into crazyland, where expecting to be treated differently=expecting people not to interact with you at all=rats chewing off your face for not participating fully in the Hate Minute. Bored now. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/222 "2015-04-07T00:23:02Z")
Wait, so I should be able not to share my secret pizza sauce with Jews/blacks/Christians/gay people? People the cut of whose jib I don’t like? This thread is getting pretty bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/223 "2015-04-07T00:40:28Z")
> [@susan](#): > > Wait, so I should be able not to share my secret pizza sauce with Jews/blacks/Christians/gay people? People the cut of whose jib I don’t like? This thread is getting pretty bizarre. Those black people might not be able to appreciate your hard work or something. … ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/224 "2015-04-07T00:49:33Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > So you admit then to violating federal law? > > Also, would you be okay if local businesses refused your custom solely because you’re Roma? That very frequently happens. And when federal law puts me into uncomfortable working conditions heck, yes I will violate it. I am not so poor that I have to make myself miserable to earn a living. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/225 "2015-04-07T00:56:46Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > That very frequently happens. > > And when federal law puts me into uncomfortable working conditions heck, yes I will violate it. I am not so poor that I have to make myself miserable to earn a living. Are thier specific classes of people that make you uncomfortable? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/226 "2015-04-07T00:57:00Z")
> [@susan](#): > > Wait, so I should be able not to share my secret pizza sauce with Jews/blacks/Christians/gay people? People the cut of whose jib I don’t like? This thread is getting pretty bizarre. If you are in individual running a little pizza cart or a tiny restaurant making your prized sauce in the back kitchen interacting with the customers at the register, whatever, I don’t think you should be forced to share/sell your secret pizza sauce with anyone you don’t want to do business with for whatever reason you chose. Your motives are your own and you have a right to keep them private. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/227 "2015-04-07T01:00:16Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Are thier specific classes of people that make you uncomfortable? Experience has taught me the more informal the culture the least I like interacting with its members. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/228 "2015-04-07T01:04:42Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > If you are in individual running a little pizza cart or a tiny restaurant making your prized sauce in the back kitchen interacting with the customers at the register, whatever, I don’t think you should be forced to share/sell your secret pizza sauce with anyone you don’t want to do business with for whatever reason you chose. Your motives are your own and you have a right to keep them private. If you are telling people you won’t serve them because they are black or refusing service to all black people you aren’t keeping your motives private. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/229 "2015-04-07T01:06:03Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Experience has taught me the more informal the culture the least I like interacting with its members. You make that decision based on thier culture and not them as an individual? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/230 "2015-04-07T01:18:13Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > As far as I know no straight couple can compel anyone to make them a cake or play music at their wedding if the artist (yeah, that’s what craftsmen and craftswomen are, despite the humble origins of our mediums) doesn’t want them as a client. Well, prepare to have your mind blown because this is exactly what can happen\* if the state or locality recognizes sexual orientation as a protected class, the business provides cakes/plays music for other people, and the reason they refuse is _because_ the couple is straight. To echo others, how did we get to crazytown in this thread? \*\* Unless “compel” was the important word to you here. Obviously, they can’t be “compelled.” But they can be fined or otherwise sanctioned.\* ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/231 "2015-04-07T01:22:49Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Experience has taught me the more informal the culture the least I like interacting with its members. Which cultures in particular are we talking about here? ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/232 "2015-04-07T01:29:07Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Yes I’m aware some states did have segregation laws. My point remains the same. The claim the presence of such laws prevented the free market from resolving the issue is untrue as Greensboro is an example of a place where no such laws were applied so the free market should have solve the problem. It didn’t work. It wasn’t until the government enforced equal protection laws that the private companies stopped discriminating. Even in those parts of the Jim Crow South where private businesses were not legally required to discriminate against Blacks, they weren’t really free to embrace Black customers. Anyone who ran an integrated school, bus line, or restaurant in the deep South in 1930 would have been at very high risk of being attacked by the KKK or some other angry mob. As likely as not, the mob would be lead by a government employee. The real lesson of the Jim Crow era is: government sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/233 "2015-04-07T01:51:31Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Even in those parts of the Jim Crow South where private businesses were not legally required to discriminate against Blacks, they weren’t really free to embrace Black customers. Anyone who ran an integrated school, bus line, or restaurant in the deep South in 1930 would have been at very high risk of being attacked by the KKK or some other angry mob. As likely as not, the mob would be lead by a government employee. The real lesson of the Jim Crow era is: government sucks. WTF? Government employees led mobs attacking non-discriminating businesses? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/234 "2015-04-07T01:54:32Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > The real lesson of the Jim Crow era is: government sucks. Funny. I think the real lesson is racial discrimination hurts people, and when you have government support for such discrimination, even more people are hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/235 "2015-04-07T02:01:16Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Funny. I think the real lesson is racial discrimination hurts people, and when you have government support for such discrimination, even more people are hurt. A secondary lesson is the tremendous value of the government as a means to end discriminatory practices like those of the Jim Crow South. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/236 "2015-04-07T02:06:45Z")
Those nasty government laws only existed because the majority of the people voted for them. So the real lesson here is democracy sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/237 "2015-04-07T02:31:30Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > The real lesson of the Jim Crow era is: government sucks. Out of curiosity, have you ever told an anecdote on this board, or read about an anecdote on this board, that didn’t have that lesson? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/238 "2015-04-07T02:53:07Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Out of curiosity, have you ever told an anecdote on this board, or read about an anecdote on this board, that didn’t have that lesson? A lot of them end with, “And that’s why Richard Dawkins is a cock.” ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/239 "2015-04-07T03:35:26Z")
So… ZPG. … you have no problem with someone refusing you service because you are a thieving gypsy? Because that’s their right? ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/240 "2015-04-07T03:41:49Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > That very frequently happens. > > And when federal law puts me into uncomfortable working conditions heck, yes I will violate it. I am not so poor that I have to make myself miserable to earn a living. You avoided my question about being Roma. If a business refused you service because you are Roma, would you think that was fair and acceptable? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716.md?page=13)