# Should Mom-and-Pops That Forgo Gay Weddings Be Destroyed? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 3, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716 "2015-04-03T16:37:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/281 "2015-04-08T01:09:02Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > A won’t do business with B because A disapproves of B’s actions. > B won’t do business with A because B disapproves of A’s actions. It’s not “doing business”, it’s “offering services to the public”, and only one side is doing that. By law, you can’t discriminate when offering services, and gays should be protected just like racial and religious categories are. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/282 "2015-04-08T01:10:26Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > If freeman of the land A wishes to contract with freeman of the land B, but freeman of the land B does not establish joinder with A … Is that code for you don’t care if people discriminate? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/283 "2015-04-08T01:32:48Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > A won’t do business with B because A disapproves of B’s actions. > B won’t do business with A because B disapproves of A’s actions. If an ice cream parlor won’t serve Jews because they don’t recognize that Jesus is Lord; and the Anti-Defamation League organizes a protest because of this policy, you’re saying that both sides are equally wrong? (ETA: or equally justified, if you prefer. I just mean there’s no moral difference between the actions of the paror and the ADL.) I just want to make sure I understand. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/284 "2015-04-08T01:37:08Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Is that code for you don’t care if people discriminate? No. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/285 "2015-04-08T01:47:14Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > If freeman of the land A wishes to contract with freeman of the land B, but freeman of the land B does not establish joinder with A … Your gold fringe is in my lunatic fringe! ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/286 "2015-04-08T01:47:48Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > No. but you are against laws that prevent discrimination, right? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/287 "2015-04-08T01:50:44Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > but you are against laws that prevent discrimination, right? No. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/288 "2015-04-08T01:51:51Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > No. well do you think it would be possible for you to state directly what you do or do not support? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/289 "2015-04-08T01:55:17Z")
He made a joke and you didn’t get it. It isn’t worth explaining it to you, just move on. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/290 "2015-04-08T01:55:36Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > well do you think it would be possible for you to state directly what you do or do not support? Are you seeking a publicly registered legal personality created by the state? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/291 "2015-04-08T02:02:50Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > well do you think it would be possible for you to state directly what you do or do not support? It’s possible you’re confusing him with Aji de Gallina. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/292 "2015-04-08T02:05:36Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It’s possible you’re confusing him with Aji de Gallina. no, i didnt confuse the two ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/293 "2015-04-08T02:19:34Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > no, i didnt confuse the two Then why on Earth were you assuming that **Hentor** was against anti-discrimination laws? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/294 "2015-04-08T03:03:09Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It’s possible you’re confusing him with Aji de Gallina. Or the corporation known as AJI DE GALLINA, who is someone else entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/295 "2015-04-08T03:25:24Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Then why on Earth were you assuming that **Hentor** was against anti-discrimination laws? I am inscrutable. I cannot be scruted. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/296 "2015-04-08T05:29:41Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Right. A is being a douchebag, because B’s actions are not a problem and are not affecting anyone (that is, B is marrying another dude). > > B is being perfectly reasonable, because A’s actions are a problem and are affecting others (refusing to offer a service on equitable terms). > > Your reduction of the whole thing to letters and abstract nouns removes precisely the fundamental difference between A and B. Both sides of business are free to engage or not. We’re talking about wedding cakes, not heart surgery. Being a douchebag is an opinion. Being free isn’t. My “reduction” is essential to see the general principle. It also applies to the NAACP not having to rent their dance hall to the neo-nazi group. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s not “doing business”, it’s “offering services to the public”, and only one side is doing that. By law, you can’t discriminate when offering services, and gays should be protected just like racial and religious categories are. If the law in the place were you do business restrict your freedom of doing business in the way you want (assholey or not) then you have two options: follow the law that you find distasteful OR close up shop. If your bakey is such an essential part of the fabric of society that your refusal to sell one wedding cake sets your community on the edge of death, then that community should, freely, decide if losing your business is worth it. One can, of course, simultaneously petition so that the law changes to something you find more agreeable. I may think that a particular business’s decision not to serve people born on a Tuesday on a Fibonacci series day in a prime-numbered month in a year before that of an olympic game is stupid, but I think they should be able to do so (for non-essential, non-life threatening stuff). > [@Ravenman](#): > > If an ice cream parlor won’t serve Jews because they don’t recognize that Jesus is Lord; and the Anti-Defamation League organizes a protest because of this policy, you’re saying that both sides are equally wrong? (ETA: or equally justified, if you prefer. I just mean there’s no moral difference between the actions of the paror and the ADL.) I just want to make sure I understand. I think it is stupid to not serve Jews ice-cream because they don’t recognise that Jesus is Lord. I think that, being an ice-cream parlor (and not vaccines for kids), they should be able to do it. The ADL is free to protest an expose what they consider an odious action and let people choose if they want to engage in business with that particular establishment. > [@Ravenman](#): > > Or the corporation known as AJI DE GALLINA, who is someone else entirely. Good one, 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/297 "2015-04-08T09:38:17Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > If the law in the place were you do business restrict your freedom of doing business in the way you want (assholey or not) then you have two options: follow the law that you find distasteful OR close up shop. If your bakey is such an essential part of the fabric of society that your refusal to sell one wedding cake sets your community on the edge of death, then that community should, freely, decide if losing your business is worth it. > One can, of course, simultaneously petition so that the law changes to something you find more agreeable. Okay – you don’t like the Civil Rights Act. I get it. > [@](#): > > I may think that a particular business’s decision not to serve people born on a Tuesday on a Fibonacci series day in a prime-numbered month in a year before that of an olympic game is stupid, but I think they should be able to do so (for non-essential, non-life threatening stuff). “People born on a Tuesday on a Fibonacci series day in a prime-numbered month in a year before that of an olympic game” is not a protected class, so businesses can feel free to not serve them. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/298 "2015-04-08T10:01:43Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Being a douchebag is an opinion. Note the forum. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/299 "2015-04-08T15:53:59Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I am inscrutable. I cannot be scruted. Scrute you, buddy. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/300 "2015-04-08T17:19:59Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > what makes performers so special? The creative process. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716.md?page=16)