# Should Mom-and-Pops That Forgo Gay Weddings Be Destroyed? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 3, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716 "2015-04-03T16:37:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/81 "2015-04-04T17:30:41Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > When they go out of their way to destroy a small business just because they disagree with them? “They”? I stand with gay people. Lots of straight people stand with gay people. This is not gay people against straight people. This is people who respect gay people against people who don’t. You don’t respect gay people? I don’t owe you anything. I don’t owe you my business, and damned straight (heh) I will tell others about it and hope they won’t give you their business either. I don’t make illegal threats, wouldn’t call or harass. But I’m happy to boycott. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/82 "2015-04-04T17:40:45Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > Only tangentially related, but I noticed more of this same recently. You know the Duck Dynasty guys and their persona of refusing to portray anything that’s less than Christian, right? Well, the other day, Willie (one of the main two brothers), performed the wedding of a country music singer, Jason Aldean. Why is this worth a mention? It seems the family that’s very vocal against gays has no problem with this fellow, who’d not too long ago, got busted by the media macking on some chick in public. The one he just married. After he left his wife and (how ever many) kids for after their affair. So, I guess it’s as different as this, eh? Yes, it is different. Is the Country Singer’s wedding, itself, sinful? No (unless you are Catholic, which they aren’t. The belong to The Church of Christ, which AFAICT does allow divorce.). Past sins can be forgiven. But if you think SSM is a sin, then the wedding, itself, is sinful. Christianity is all about forgiving sins, but it isn’t about aiding and abetting sin. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/83 "2015-04-04T18:09:21Z")
I don’t think this has been mentioned yet, but one of the arguments for segregation was also a religious one–that God didn’t want blacks and whites to mix, or marry each other. But the U.S. doesn’t allow that argument to be used to let businesses discriminate any more. Should a mom and pop be destroyed? If they break the law, yes. ---
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/84 "2015-04-04T18:11:08Z")
The shamelessly loaded language in the title of this article makes me laugh every time I come across it. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/85 "2015-04-04T18:21:43Z")
> [@tapu](#): > > The shamelessly loaded language in the title of this article makes me laugh every time I come across it. :rolleyes: Well, I agree with it. Mom and pop stores that refuse to serve gay customers should be burned to the ground, and the earth salted, while the proprietors are driven naked through the streets with bullwhips, until they reach the edge of town, where they are banished forever to wander and cry in the wilderness. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/86 "2015-04-04T18:22:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yes, it is different. > > Is the Country Singer’s wedding, itself, sinful? No (unless you are Catholic, which they aren’t. The belong to The Church of Christ, which AFAICT does allow divorce.). Past sins can be forgiven. > > But if you think SSM is a sin, then the wedding, itself, is sinful. > > Christianity is all about forgiving sins, but it isn’t about aiding and abetting sin. Yes, it is sinful. The divorce itself isn’t necessarily the problem, it’s the remarriage while your ‘first’ spouse lives. Divorce and remarriage equals adultery. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/87 "2015-04-04T18:25:57Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > I don’t think this has been mentioned yet, but one of the arguments for segregation was also a religious one–that God didn’t want blacks and whites to mix, or marry each other. But the U.S. doesn’t allow that argument to be used to let businesses discriminate any more. > > Should a mom and pop be destroyed? If they break the law, yes. What if the mom and pop store doesn’t agree with mixed race marriages? Should they have the right to refuse? Or if the couple has a person who has been divorced? Or a criminal background? Or a genetic problem (those hemophiliacs/Down’s syndrome people shouldn’t get married). Or is HIV positive? Or a cancer survivor? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/88 "2015-04-04T19:08:28Z")
I have a number of problems with this law. But the biggest one is that it pretends that “religion” is one fixed thing. New religions spring up all the time. Even old religions change and adopt new texts, no ideological bents. It’s not practical or fair to allow one set of religious exemptions (die-hard Christians and their hatred for teh gays) but not allow the others that may spring up. Today it’s gays, and tomorrow it could be some other group. There’s also no guarantee that we’ll always have protected classes. Laws are repealed all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/89 "2015-04-04T19:22:55Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > This is not a harmless difference of opinion, like “I like red, and you prefer blue.” These people are hruting my loved ones. I’ll say that again-- these people are doing things that cause active harm to some of the poeple I care about most in this world. > > These actions encourage parents to disown their kids. They encourage gay teenagers to feel fear and self-loathing. They encourage gay couples to hide. They encourage hate, fear, self-loathing, lie-living, broken families , beatings, and suicide. > > Of people that I care about. > > It’s not harmless. It’s not an opinion. It’s about making sure that gay people know that they are hated and that they get the maximize social penalty possible for who they are. It’s about creating an aptmosphere of casual htred so that kids and people on the fence are encouraged to be comfortable with the “hate the fags” side. It’s about hurting people, causing them pain, running them out of town, and perpetuating hate. > > Fuck. That. Fuck their business. Fuck their fucked up little opinion. These guys are on the wrong side of history. We’ve slowly, very slowly, been working towards a world where everyone deserves human dignity, and these people are bravely holding on to some of the last bastions of pointless hatred, with tenacity found only in people who understand they are about to lose. And the sooner they lose, the sooner they are pushed deep into the margins of society where stupid prejudice belongs, the sooner everyone else can get on with their lives. Here, here! Great post, especially the last paragraph. I have lived long enough to see majority opinions against blacks and women become recognized as the prejudice they are. Prejudice against the gay community is next, and those with that prejudice know deep in their hearts, that they are wrong and they will lose. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/90 "2015-04-04T19:23:50Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Well, I agree with it. Mom and pop stores that refuse to serve gay customers should be burned to the ground, and the earth salted, while the proprietors are driven naked through the streets with bullwhips, until they reach the edge of town, where they are banished forever to wander and cry **in the wilderness**. I was with you until the last three words. **Nobody** deserves _Texas_! ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/91 "2015-04-04T19:25:52Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > So it first starts off being about diamond rings and wedding cakes. Then one day the dry cleaner says they don’t want to keep doing Mr. Fancy-Pants laundry because AIDS! Then the teachers start going, “Hmm, well if those guys can get a religious exemption, why can’t we? Don’t we have rights?” and suddenly the gay kids are being kicked out of class. Now all the gay families are walking around town in unlaundered clothes, with illiterate children, and the rest of the town folk–who maybe don’t have anything against homosexuals–now are discriminating against them because they are stupid and stinky. And the gay families are demoralized and stigmitized and living on the outskirts of society, not being functional at all. When and where has such a situation occurred, ever? ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/92 "2015-04-04T19:32:34Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > When and where has such a situation occurred, ever? That doesn’t sound to you at all like the treatment of blacks before the civil rights movement? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/93 "2015-04-04T19:40:37Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > Yes, it is sinful. The divorce itself isn’t necessarily the problem, it’s the remarriage while your ‘first’ spouse lives. Divorce and remarriage equals adultery. That may be true for some denominations of Christianity, but not all. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/94 "2015-04-04T19:41:41Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I have a number of problems with this law. But the biggest one is that it pretends that “religion” is one fixed thing. New religions spring up all the time. Even old religions change and adopt new texts, no ideological bents. It’s not practical or fair to allow one set of religious exemptions (die-hard Christians and their hatred for teh gays) but not allow the others that may spring up. > > Today it’s gays, and tomorrow it could be some other group. > > There’s also no guarantee that we’ll always have protected classes. Laws are repealed all the time. If you don’t have protected classes, you don’t NEED a law that allows you to discriminate. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/95 "2015-04-04T19:45:31Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > What if the mom and pop store doesn’t agree with mixed race marriages? Should they have the right to refuse? > > Or if the couple has a person who has been divorced? Or a criminal background? Or a genetic problem (those hemophiliacs/Down’s syndrome people shouldn’t get married). Or is HIV positive? Or a cancer survivor? I’m not sure what your point is. Do you think I agree with your hypotheticals? I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/96 "2015-04-04T20:14:17Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Or, they want to be famous in the gay community and what better way to get to be the pride of the Pride parade than being the person who shuts down a business. > > I mean are gays just running around begging and pleading for some business to slight them so they can go after them? What’s wrong with just taking your money somewhere else? I agree. This is not something that is so ingrained the system to the point where gays are denied wedding cakes. It’s just done to be a giant “Fuck You” to people who are religiously opposed to SSM. It’s not enough that homosexuality is no longer considered a mental disorder, not enough that it is legal, not enough that gay marriage is legal. Now it must be that everyone will accept it or suffer the consequences. The OP is right. Growing up, the argument was that gay people were not forcing anything on anyone; they just wanted the right to live their lives as they pleased and to be left alone. Now that they have that, they are going for the jugular, and by doing so are alienating people who supported their plight by actually, really and truly, forcing their relationships on people. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/97 "2015-04-04T20:23:56Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Now that they have that, they are going for the jugular, and by doing so are alienating people who supported their plight by actually, really and truly, forcing their relationships on people. Oh yes, of course, all of those people who would support “them” if “they” just weren’t so uppity. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/98 "2015-04-04T20:30:48Z")
Reminds me of a line from an Austin Powers movie: I hate 2 kinds of people: People who don’t like certain ethic groups and the Dutch. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/99 "2015-04-04T20:38:19Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I agree. This is not something that is so ingrained the system to the point where gays are denied wedding cakes. It’s just done to be a giant “Fuck You” to people who are religiously opposed to SSM. It’s not enough that homosexuality is no longer considered a mental disorder, not enough that it is legal, not enough that gay marriage is legal. Now it must be that everyone will accept it or suffer the consequences. Yep. It’s not enough to just be discriminated against “a little bit,” or “less than you used to be,” or, as [one inestimable intellect on the right](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/02/tom-cotton-gays-indiana-religious-freedom_n_6992282.html) has recently suggested, “less than in Iran.” We actually want, surprisingly enough, not to be discriminated against at all. We’d like to see anti-gay discrimination treated with the same legal and social opprobrium as racial discrimination, or gender discrimination. And really, that’s all that’s happening here. People who are anti-gay bigots are, finally, being treated the same way anti-black bigots get treated. > [@](#): > > The OP is right. Growing up, the argument was that gay people were not forcing anything on anyone; they just wanted the right to live their lives as they pleased and to be left alone. Now that they have that, they are going for the jugular, and by doing so are alienating people who supported their plight by actually, really and truly, forcing their relationships on people. That’s a pretty standard misrepresentation of the anti-gay rights lobby. Unless you grew up back when the Mattachine Society was the only name in gay rights organizations, the goal of the gay rights movement has always been to see sexuality subject to the same protections as race, gender, and religion. As for alienating supporters, that’s simply not happening. The majority of Americans are on board with these sorts of protections, and that majority is growing steadily. The only people we’ve “alienated” are the soft bigots who were willing to tut their tongues disapprovingly at people like Westboro Baptist, and then pretend that was the same thing as actually supporting gay rights. If those people were too dumb to realize that when gay rights activists talked about “full equality,” they actually meant “full equality,” well, I don’t have a whole lot of sympathy for idiots to begin with, and far less when that idiocy is actively malicious. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716/100 "2015-04-04T20:41:07Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Oh yes, of course, all of those people who would support “them” if “they” just weren’t so uppity. What pronoun should I use to refer to a group of people to which I don’t belong? Oh, yeah, it’s “they” and “them.” I’ll never understand why your side thinks that it is improper ONLY when referring to favored groups. As for uppity, well, again, keep making the race parallel without any support to your argument. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-mom-and-pops-that-forgo-gay-weddings-be-destroyed/716716.md?page=6)