# Should my aunt have sent an e-mail on Shabbat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 15, 2002, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-aunt-have-sent-an-e-mail-on-shabbat/119108 "2002-07-15T20:28:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Big\_Kahuna\_Burger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Big\_Kahuna\_Burger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Kahuna_Burger)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2002, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-aunt-have-sent-an-e-mail-on-shabbat/119108/1 "2002-07-15T20:28:14Z")
My aunt, who converted her family to very frum Orthodox Jewish a few years ago, sent us an e-mail recently about a virus that automatically installed a component in your hard drive and how you had to delete it. Sadly, my father was the first person to see this e-mail and he deleted the component without bothering to check it out, and sure enough it was a hoax. Now we’ve deleted an important part of IE and I’m having a tough time getting it back. Performance is noticeably down. We sent an e-mail to my aunt about the hoax and she explained that she had figured out it was a hoax on Friday night before it was officially Shabbat, but her AOL mail was down Friday night, and she didn’t bother sending an e-mail to warn us the next day because it would go against Shabbat. So, should she have sent us the e-mail, saving our computer from performing poorly, on Shabbat? Am I the putz or is she? ;j -BKB ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2002, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-aunt-have-sent-an-e-mail-on-shabbat/119108/2 "2002-07-15T20:38:51Z")
Gee…religious convictions vs. poorly-performing computer. Religious convictions vs. poorly-performing computer. And mind you, you don’t say that you’re computer is totally not functioning, merely that performance is down. (not that it would make a difference). Are you really serious about this question? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2002, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-aunt-have-sent-an-e-mail-on-shabbat/119108/3 "2002-07-15T20:42:46Z")
In short, unless your life (or someone else’s) depended on IE working properly, then no, the laws of Shabbos cannot be broken to send you the email. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2002, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-aunt-have-sent-an-e-mail-on-shabbat/119108/4 "2002-07-15T22:38:04Z")
There’s a prohibition against e-mail in the Talmud? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2002, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-aunt-have-sent-an-e-mail-on-shabbat/119108/5 "2002-07-15T22:46:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\*There’s a prohibition against e-mail in the Talmud? \*\* Sure. Those Rabbis were very forward looking. You’ll find it in the same section that prohibits transporters and star cruisers. 😃 Seriously, however, the prohibition involves the use of fire. Electricity has been ruled by later Rabbinic authorities to be akin to fire. Since sending emails involves a computer and using electricity, it is forbidden on Shabbos. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2002, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-aunt-have-sent-an-e-mail-on-shabbat/119108/6 "2002-07-15T23:14:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > \*\* > > Sure. Those Rabbis were very forward looking. You’ll find it in the same section that prohibits transporters and star cruisers. 😃 > \*\* That section is always misunderstood. Transporters are not prohibited _per se_; instead humans (for fear of the soul being lost) and foodstuffs (for fear of becoming _treiff_ in the rematerialization process) cannot be transported. Everything else is fair game. Sua ---
**Author:** ![Big\_Kahuna\_Burger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Big\_Kahuna\_Burger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Big_Kahuna_Burger)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2002, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-aunt-have-sent-an-e-mail-on-shabbat/119108/7 "2002-07-15T23:29:35Z")
Yeah, I guess I am being inconsiderate being angry at her. Our family doesn’t get along with her due to a custody dispute she has with my uncle so I almost never give her the benefit of the doubt. I realize I should respect her and her new belief system, but due to the way she has acted in the past I’m not inclined to let her get away with anything. Out of curiosity, where would you draw the line of breaking Shabbos? This isn’t necessarily computer-related. What do you think would be the least exigent emergency requiring breaking of sabbath rules? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-aunt-have-sent-an-e-mail-on-shabbat/119108/8 "2002-07-16T00:00:10Z")
Big Kahuna Burger: > [@](#): > > Out of curiosity, where would you draw the line of breaking Shabbos? This isn’t necessarily computer-related. What do you think would be the least exigent emergency requiring breaking of sabbath rules? There would have to be at least the possibility (any possibility) that a life is in danger. You can take a doctor’s (or fireman’s, or policeman’s, etc.) word for it; you don’t need to wait for a Rabbi to hear hear the circumstances and approve it. Chaim Mattis Keller ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-aunt-have-sent-an-e-mail-on-shabbat/119108/9 "2002-07-16T01:18:12Z")
BKB: I think the lesson in all this is that your aunt ought not to be considered a very reliable source of information, particularly on things that she sends out a little before Shabbos! Another lesson is to **never, ever** do something that an e-mail tells you to do to your computer without first veifying that it is legit even if it comes from [TheLord@God.org](mailto:TheLord@God.org)! [Or, as the libertarians would probably believe [TheMarket@God.com](mailto:TheMarket@God.com) !!] ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-aunt-have-sent-an-e-mail-on-shabbat/119108/10 "2002-07-16T02:49:56Z")
I’d be angrier with her sending you a hoax, and your dad for not checking it out first. ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-aunt-have-sent-an-e-mail-on-shabbat/119108/11 "2002-07-16T03:05:52Z")
But is a BLT kosher if it came out of a replicator, and has never been anywhere near an actual pig? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-aunt-have-sent-an-e-mail-on-shabbat/119108/12 "2002-07-16T13:21:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > \*\*Seriously, however, the prohibition involves the use of fire. Electricity has been ruled by later Rabbinic authorities to be akin to fire. Since sending emails involves a computer and using electricity, it is forbidden on Shabbos. > > Zev Steinhardt \*\* Ignorant Gentile question; just what the hell do you do on Saturday, then? You can’t use any of the lights in your house or drive anywhere in the car if you don’t use electricity. I guess you could barbeque, but it sure would get dark in winter, wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-aunt-have-sent-an-e-mail-on-shabbat/119108/13 "2002-07-16T13:26:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RickJay \* > \*\* > > Ignorant Gentile question; just what the hell do you do on Saturday, then? You can’t use any of the lights in your house or drive anywhere in the car if you don’t use electricity. I guess you could barbeque, but it sure would get dark in winter, wouldn’t it? \*\* psst. BBQ = fire ---
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-aunt-have-sent-an-e-mail-on-shabbat/119108/14 "2002-07-16T13:58:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RickJay \* > \*\* > > Ignorant Gentile question; just what the hell do you do on Saturday, then? You can’t use any of the lights in your house or drive anywhere in the car if you don’t use electricity. I guess you could barbeque, but it sure would get dark in winter, wouldn’t it? \*\* We sit in the dark and contemplate the lint in our belly buttons. :giggle: Sorry. I just think the implication of this question is pretty funny. It _is_ possible to enjoy oneself without using electrical appliances, you know. ;j What do Observant Jews do on Shabbos? We: [ul] [li]Read, either for pleasure or for study[/li][li]Talk to people… like our family.[/li][li]Pray.[/li][li]Rest (sleep, nap)[/li][li]Take walks.[/li][li]Etc.[/li][/ul] Here’s an interesting insight: The kind of activity prohibited on Shabbos is categorized as _melocho_, which is usually mistranslated as “work” which sparks a lot of needless debate. A more correct translation would be “creative activity.” The term has the same root word as “Malach,” the hebrew word for angel. An angel is (in Jewish philosophy" an agent of God, one who does God’s bidding. So, the kind of activity prohibited on Shabbos is the kind of work which in which we (in a sense) send an agent out into the world to affect a change. In other words, on Shabbos, a Jew is prohibited from doing things which will then remain, independent of him. He can’t build a wall, tie a permanent know, or complete an electrical circuit. All of these examples (and coutless others) are activities which involve a kind of permanence. Permitted activites are focused inward; Jews use the Shabbos to _rest_, as God rested (on the Seventh Day), from all creative activity. That make sense? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-aunt-have-sent-an-e-mail-on-shabbat/119108/15 "2002-07-16T14:10:36Z")
RickJay: > [@](#): > > Ignorant Gentile question; just what the hell do you do on Saturday, then? You can’t use any of the lights in your house or drive anywhere in the car if you don’t use electricity. I guess you could barbeque, but it sure would get dark in winter, wouldn’t it? We’re allowed to leave lights on, but not allowed to turn them on or off. And indeed we don’t drive. What do we do. Well, the first half of the day is generaly spent in Synagogue; the morning prayers are considerably longer on Saturday than on an ordinary weekday. Following that is lunchtime, which is a long, festive meal. And after that…? Sleep. Learn Torah. Take the children to the playground. Take a walk through the neighborhood. Any old thing we want to do…as long as it does not violate the laws of Shabbat. Chaim Mattis Keller ---
**Author:** ![Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ac91a4/32.png) [@Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knighted_Vorpal_Sword)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-aunt-have-sent-an-e-mail-on-shabbat/119108/16 "2002-07-16T14:25:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RickJay \* > \*\* > > Ignorant Gentile question; just what the hell do you do on Saturday, then? You can’t use any of the lights in your house or drive anywhere in the car if you don’t use electricity. I guess you could barbeque, but it sure would get dark in winter, wouldn’t it? \*\* Lights are all on timers. The only time there’s a problem is if the electricity goes out. The funny thing is that if you’re forced to “break Shabbos” it sticks in your mind, like when I had to drive my wife (in labor) to the hospital. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-aunt-have-sent-an-e-mail-on-shabbat/119108/17 "2002-07-16T14:36:09Z")
Kighted Vorpal Sword: > [@](#): > > The funny thing is that if you’re forced to “break Shabbos” it sticks in your mind, like when I had to drive my wife (in labor) to the hospital. Mazel Tov - what was it, a boy or girl? (My shabbos baby was a girl.) Chaim Mattis Keller ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-aunt-have-sent-an-e-mail-on-shabbat/119108/18 "2002-07-16T14:59:52Z")
Wait a sec, isn’t this instance a little exceptional. The aunt sent an e-mail that caused injury to property. She could have sent another e-mail that would have saved the property were it not Shabbos. Surely, there has to be some appeal to allow charitable work on Shabbos? Mind, I’m an ignorant Gentile whose knowledge of Talmud comes from Faye Kellerman’s Rina Lazurus detective novels and Harry Kemelman’s “The Rabbi who” mysteries. ---
**Author:** ![Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ac91a4/32.png) [@Knighted\_Vorpal\_Sword](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knighted_Vorpal_Sword)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-aunt-have-sent-an-e-mail-on-shabbat/119108/19 "2002-07-16T15:19:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cmkeller \* > \*\*Kighted Vorpal Sword: > > Mazel Tov - what was it, a boy or girl? (My shabbos baby was a girl.) \*\* It was a girl, about 6 1/2 years ago, but thanks for the mazel tov! > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by gobear \*\*\* > Surely, there has to be some appeal to allow charitable work on Shabbos?_\* No, unless it does not break the Shabbos rules. For example, many youth groups walk Shabbos afternoons to nursing homes/hospitals to visit residents and patients. I have a group of friends that goes on Shabbos afternoon to visit a friend who has cancer. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2002, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-aunt-have-sent-an-e-mail-on-shabbat/119108/20 "2002-07-16T15:46:13Z")
But it is OK for women to leave the house without being covered from head to foot, eh? :rolleyes: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-aunt-have-sent-an-e-mail-on-shabbat/119108.md?page=2)