# Should my son be allowed to charge up food at school to any amount he wants? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 30, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543 "2010-09-30T00:57:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/181 "2010-10-02T22:42:55Z")
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**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/182 "2010-10-02T22:58:48Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > Spending time with a 15 year old in 1996 is not the same as spending time with one in 2010. Nor is your dating a 15 year old in 1980 applicable. The “I was your age once” train of thought is literally the most pathetic and out of touch attempt at a connection possible. Well I find the “you’re not a parent so you don’t understand/get an opinion” train of thought to be even more pathetic. Look - every single person in the world has a slightly different high school experience, depending on where and when they grew up, what activities they’re involved in, what subjects they’re interested in, their own personality and friend group, etc. You say you and your brother had very different high school experiences - well so did me and my brother, but we went to the same high school at the same time (we’re only 2 years apart). > [@](#): > > I think the OP started the thread for relevant opinions. You’re right, I don’t spend time with him when he’s in school. My mother and father are deadbeats as well, since they’re not with him when he’s in school either. I never said your parents were deadbeats - of course they’re not at school with him. But I’m guessing they help him pack a lunch, buy groceries for his breakfast, pay for his school cafeteria account, give him his allowance, decide if can or cannot get an after-school job, and talk to him and discipline him if goes against their wishes. Or do you do all those things? ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/183 "2010-10-03T00:01:52Z")
**lindsaybluth** - See below - **OpalCat** Didn’t ask for just the opinions of parents or pseudoparents (like you). She threw the question out to the masses.We are giving our requested opinions. And, whether you believe it or not, the advance of technology doesn’t change issues of parenting. Because, when you come right down to it, this is an issue of discipline, not technology. As was said above, whether he’s keying in a PIN or stealing from a purse, he’s still taking what he isn’t supposed to. > [@OpalCat](#): > > School lunches cost $2.50, breakfast costs $1.25. We have told Dominic that he is not allowed to buy breakfasts at school, because we have lots of cereal, toast, eggs, etc here at home that he can eat. > > Now we find out that he’s been buying breakfasts at school (things like sweet rolls and muffins!CRAP!) and charging it to his account, so that his account goes into the negative. We send in money every week for his lunches, and it’s covering past days’ worth of breakfasts and leaving him still in the hole–yet the school keeps letting him get breakfasts! There is no way to not let him buy food. > > Is this fair? I think it’s bullshit. StG ---
**Author:** ![moi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@moi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moi)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/184 "2010-10-03T00:03:37Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > Spending time with a 15 year old in 1996 is not the same as spending time with one in 2010. Again, I say, spending time with a 15 year old in any age is not the same as parenting one. I don’t understand why you’re so vested in who gets to have a say in _Opal’s_ thread about _her_ kid. Honestly, this is a thread on the Internet. Whoever has an account can chime in, and they don’t have to check in with you first. While the mechanism used in Dominic’s school wasn’t around when I was in HS, the same mechanism is not used in my brother’s school, either. I don’t think not having exact experience with this PIN system gets in the way of me having something to share with Opal. Like others have said, this is a simple and common parenting issue, one confounded by the system employed by the school, but not defined by it. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/185 "2010-10-03T01:04:17Z")
> [@moi](#): > > Like others have said, this is a simple and common parenting issue, one confounded by the system employed by the school, but not defined by it. I agree. I would hope that the school would work with a parent who asked that a voluntary, non-essential account be closed, however. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/186 "2010-10-03T01:40:22Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#): > > > [@Muffin](#): > > > > Lindsay, the mechanism of exchange is not relevant. Whether it is by code, or by card, or by cash, or by tab, the underlying problem in this matter is that the son is stealing from his parents. Whether the thefts took place back at the dawn of time, or took place yesterday, the problem of stealing remains the same. Kids misusing their parents this way is nothing new, and certainly is not something that has only appeared in the last decade. > > The mechanism of exchange is _absolutely_ relevant. If it were cash, **Opal** could not give him money. If it were tab, **Opal** could refuse to let him run one. If it were a card, she could take the card and/or cut it up. The PIN system is such that every kid is in the system even if they pack a lunch for 12 solid years; they can ring a tab of no limit, or an exponentially high one in some systems. The temptation is constantly there, which makes being a parent or guardian much more difficult. > > I’ve heard your empty line of reasoning before. “Kids are kids! Things are the same!” I’ll give you a prime example: bullying. Why is bullying such a focus these days with so many anti-bulling seminars, lectures, etc? Because bullying can be silent. Phoebe Prince was partly bullied online. It can be text messages of harassment, with words the bullies would be _suspended_ for saying aloud. It can be facebook messages and wall posts with a fake account name and an email address that belongs to nobody. It can be on Twitter, by email, by fake AIM handle. It can be made into a whole website that gets passed around school. It can be texting the whole school Photoshopped photos with the victim doing something terrible. If you punched a kid in the hallways in ye olde Americana high school, someone saw _something_. Firewalls and IP scramblers and pre-paid cell phones can leave no trace. Technology has opened up myriad possibilities for kids’ welfare. > > I feel for **Opal** - it’s a _lot_ harder to be a parent nowadays. I am the parent of a high school student with a PIN code for the cafe. So my experience is about raising teens today. That out of the way, this issue has nothing to do with PIN codes and cafeterias and 2010. This is a parenting issue that’s as old as dirt. You want the behavior to change then you need immediate and consistent consequences coupled with a clear explanation of the why the rule is as set. You have had many good ideas of reasonable consequences. Pick what system you can live with and begin. It is not the school’s problem- our kids will find themselves in different situations throughout life where there are more and less protections. The ability to follow rules and make good choices must become internally motivated, not externally enforced. It’ll be bumpy, but eventually he’ll get it. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/187 "2010-10-03T01:53:16Z")
Or just sent Opal’s son to live with lindsay. Probably less messy than removing a digit, and a lot less expensive for Opal. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/188 "2010-10-03T05:53:29Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Bullying existed long before your very recent school days. Every read Tom Brown’s School Days? > > In any event, get back to us when Opal’s son is bullied via the anonymous internet into purchasing muffins against his parents’ direct instructions. > > This is a simple behavioural issue, and has nothing to do with modern times, for the problem is not the muffin or the money or the ease of using a code, but instead is a problem of a youth not respecting his parents’ clear, simple, and reasonable directions, for which, as this thread has shown, there are a great many remedies to be considered that have nothing to do with the school refusing to block the code. That’s one of 2 problems OpalCat is dealing with. The other one is a school system that has overridden the parent’s decision. Dealing with the child is easy if because money has been stolen from his parents. It can be recouped at a 3 to 1 ratio as a lesson in theft. Steal a dollar and 3 dollars is withheld from the child’s allowance The child could make arrangements in advance with his parents to use the card as credit against his allowance in which case a penalty is accessed if he buys more than can be paid off in a week. The school is another issue. overriding a parent’s express wishes exceeds the authority of the school. The school board needs to understand that. I’d go so far as to contact a lawyer if they insist on interfering with a parent’s decision. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/189 "2010-10-03T06:01:25Z")
Some silly thoughts re the school’s conduct: 1. contributing to the delinquency of a minor; 2. accessory to a crime (theft); 3. is there something out there about being a Fagin? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/190 "2010-10-03T06:02:26Z")
My god, it was hard to get through that last post without saying “Hi . . .” ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/191 "2010-10-03T06:24:29Z")
How has the school overridden the parent’s wishes? They had no way of knowing that he wasn’t a hungry kid whose parents had neglected to pay his bill. She only just told them about the problem on 9/30. They told her that they won’t let kids go hungry _last year_, presumably long before this ever happened. All she had to do was call up the lunchroom and talk to the lunch ladies and see if this was something that could easily be handled. Alternatively, she emailed them and is waiting to hear back. How many more people are going to post how outraged they are that the school won’t follow her (up until now unstated) wishes? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/192 "2010-10-03T07:44:15Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > How has the school overridden the parent’s wishes? They had no way of knowing that he wasn’t a hungry kid whose parents had neglected to pay his bill. She only just told them about the problem on 9/30. They told her that they won’t let kids go hungry _last year_, presumably long before this ever happened. All she had to do was call up the lunchroom and talk to the lunch ladies and see if this was something that could easily be handled. Alternatively, she emailed them and is waiting to hear back. How many more people are going to post how outraged they are that the school won’t follow her (up until now unstated) wishes? According to the op the school’s policy is not to turn away a hungry child. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/193 "2010-10-03T08:20:13Z")
I think there’s a big difference between the school offering a piece of toast with peanut butter spread on it, and offering something like a chocolate chocolate chip muffin. Part of the OP’s objections to this is that the kid is choosing junk. Maybe the school is only offering junk. Muffins can be pretty healthy, or they can be pretty disastrous, depending on the ingredients. But the kid has other options, and is not actually hungry, and the OP would give him granola bars if he’s actually hungry. A lot of the time, people eat out of boredom, and because the food is available to eat, not because they’re hungry. The OP’s son has gotten into the habit of eating a muffin every day for breakfast, which is costing money, which he doesn’t have to pay for (as yet) and providing extra calories, which he might need or want. By the time I was 12 or 13, I was cooking breakfast for myself and anyone else who was up at the time. This usually involved toast and eggs (fried, scrambled, boiled, or in frames). Sometimes it was oatmeal. I could also make muffins and other baked goods. Dom is probably capable of making himself a substantial breakfast, and possibly also baking muffins once or twice a week, to take to school. This won’t have the appeal of going in and charging a school muffin to his account, though, which might be the basis of his behavior. Actions have consequences, and Dom needs to learn that. Having a muffin once or twice a month is usually not such a bad idea. However, getting into the habit of dipping into his parent’s wallet (which is basically what he’s doing), lying about it, and having an unhealthy snack every weekday is a combination of bad ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Wandering\_Hero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ebca7d/32.png) [@Wandering\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wandering_Hero)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/194 "2010-10-03T10:27:35Z")
I really do not agree with Lindasya’s line of thinking, and any parenting book I’ve seen or any source of parental advice has cotnradicted that “kids today don’t need dispcline, let them make their own choices!” rational. I’m pretty sure it would have the same ill consquences today as it will in the future, as it had in the 80s, the 60s, the 50 or w/e. Things like this just do not change. Hell the banker’s devloping that mentality let them lead the econamy to where it is today. It is NEVER a good sign if the kid’s lying and defying their parents for no good reason. Not that you want to raise sheep and stuff, but still. Anyway I agree that while the school’s policy is foolish, you need to take the focus off them. Punish the kid for lying (I don’t know how but one of those take away his privalages suggestions sounds good) then ASK him why he did. Or maybe ask him first. Scold him for lying to you, then if he is doing it to hang out wiht his mates, consider letting him get breakfast at school instead of home. And yeah I liked that idea of him paying for the debt he incurs out of his trust. Letting kids lie, act irrespoinably and spend recklessly will have negative consquences in any era. This will hold even in the year 3000. But at the same time, reason with your kids while discplining them ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/195 "2010-10-03T12:32:46Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I think there’s a big difference between the school offering a piece of toast with peanut butter spread on it, and offering something like a chocolate chocolate chip muffin. Peanut butter in a school? Doesn’t that result in men in hazmat suits chanting hut-hut-hut while rappelling down ropes from black helicopters? ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/196 "2010-10-03T13:09:47Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > If he had done that we would have bought him granola bars to take to school or something similar. We’re not averse to him eating, just a) eating crap and b) making us pay for it and c) disobeying specific rules. You’re concerned about him eating crap and talking about buying him granola bars? Granola bars **are** crap! They’re full of sugar, most have HFCS, saturated fats, trans fats in some, they have negligible fiber because the oats are so processed so it’s all simple carbs, negligible protein, and like just about anything you buy in a box, they’re full of salt. There is more sugar, more saturated fat, more sodium and less protein in a Nature Valley granola bar than in a _Hershey chocolate bar_. And yes, fewer calories but calories are energy, and when the calories are almost all from sugar, guess how useful those calories are over the long term? (Hint: not very.) Granola bars. I actually, honestly laughed out loud. Suddenly your nutritional concerns and standards have become really rather suspect. More importantly, is there time in this kid’s morning to sit down and have a sufficient breakfast or to make himself a sufficient breakfast to take to school to avoid the “junk food” you’re so dreadfully opposed to? I keep seeing all this insistence that there are breakfast foods at home but you can have a fridge full of food, it means nothing if there isn’t the time or ability or prepare it and sit (especially if it isn’t highly portable which most “healthy” breakfast foods aren’t) and eat it. Are you making breakfast for him? Does he have the skill to make it for himself? If not, the root of your problem is uncovered right there, and\* that’s\* where you start, not with freaking out that he’s getting OMGMUFFINS at school. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/197 "2010-10-03T13:43:12Z")
I don’t know if school cafeterias make any profits, I know they try hard to squeeze out the extra nickels and dimes through their “ala carte” case. That’s where our school account goes “in the hole” from her buying sunchips and SoBe, bought because she doesn’t like all of the hot lunch choices and they often would run out of the good stuff. This year is starting out a whole lot better, the district won a “healthy food” grant that revamped their entire menu, with whole grains, dark leafy greens, wider variety of choices on the menu, meatless entre’s included, it’s a whole new ballgame there. I hope it works out for the school… If our account goes in the hole, they seem to let the kids charge a few more bucks then they get PBJ. I wouldn’t make a federal case over muffins with anyone, have a conversation with your son, find some middle ground, then move on. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/198 "2010-10-03T13:49:32Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > > [@OpalCat](#): > > > > If he had done that we would have bought him granola bars to take to school or something similar. We’re not averse to him eating, just a) eating crap and b) making us pay for it and c) disobeying specific rules. > > You’re concerned about him eating crap and talking about buying him granola bars? Granola bars **are** crap! They’re full of sugar, most have HFCS, saturated fats, trans fats in some, they have negligible fiber because the oats are so processed so it’s all simple carbs, negligible protein, and like just about anything you buy in a box, they’re full of salt. There is more sugar, more saturated fat, more sodium and less protein in a Nature Valley granola bar than in a _Hershey chocolate bar_. And yes, fewer calories but calories are energy, and when the calories are almost all from sugar, guess how useful those calories are over the long term? (Hint: not very.) > > Granola bars. I actually, honestly laughed out loud. Suddenly your nutritional concerns and standards have become really rather suspect. Check the “or something similar” in her statement before you start ROFLing and mocking her. I’ve found a number of higher protein nutrition bars with decent nutrition, which easily look better than 600+ calorie, pretty much no-protein muffins full of trans-fats to keep them moist and garbage carbs WRT the glycemic index. Did someone pee on your well-balanced breakfast this morning or something? ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/199 "2010-10-03T15:22:59Z")
**Kirkland Signature Blueberry Muffin** (which I picked because many schools shop at warehouse clubs) Calories 612 Total Fat 32.1g Saturated Fat 6.0g Cholesterol 125mg Sodium 591mg Total Carbohydrates 71.2g Dietary Fiber 2.0g Sugars 40.1g **Quakers Chewy Granola Bar (Chocolate Chip)** Calories 100 Total Fat 3 g Saturated Fat 1 g Cholesterol 0 mg Sodium 95 mg Total Carbs 17 g Dietary Fiber 1 g Sugars 7 g Yup, I can see how you can lump a granola bar in with a muffin. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/200 "2010-10-03T15:30:30Z")
Here’s [one of my favorites](http://www.clifbar.com/food/products_mojo/) - I can’t eat chicory root/inulin, which limits my ‘nutritional bar’ choices sometimes, so this one works for me. Clif Bar Mojo - Honey Roasted Peanut Calories 200 Total Fat 10 g (15%) Sat Fat 2 g (10%) Trans Fat 0 g Polyunsat Fat 3.5 g Monounsat Fat 4 g Cholest 0 mg Sodium 200 mg (8%) Total Carbs 20 g (7%) Dietary Fiber 2 g (8%) Insol Fiber 2 g Sugars 9 g Protein 10 g (20%) Plus they’re nice and chewy and tasty, and have chunks of nuts and good stuff mixed in, rather than just a bunch of oats squished together. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543.md?page=11)