# Should my son be allowed to charge up food at school to any amount he wants? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 30, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543 "2010-09-30T00:57:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/201 "2010-10-03T15:32:30Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > **Kirkland Signature Blueberry Muffin** (which I picked because many schools shop at warehouse clubs) > > Calories 612 > Total Fat 32.1g > Saturated Fat 6.0g > Cholesterol 125mg > Sodium 591mg > Total Carbohydrates 71.2g > Dietary Fiber 2.0g > Sugars 40.1g > > **Quakers Chewy Granola Bar (Chocolate Chip)** > > Calories 100 > Total Fat 3 g > Saturated Fat 1 g > Cholesterol 0 mg > Sodium 95 mg > Total Carbs 17 g > Dietary Fiber 1 g > Sugars 7 g > > Yup, I can see how you can lump a granola bar in with a muffin. A 15 year old boy will not be satisfied with a single granola a bar, they’re the nearest thing to a black hole known. Adjusted amounts for the granola bar to equal calories of the muffin. \*\*Six granola bars \*\* Calories 600 Total Fat 18 g Saturated Fat 6 g Cholesterol 0 mg Sodium 570 mg Total Carbs 102 g Dietary Fiber 6 g Sugars 42 g Looks much closer. ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_News_Baboon)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/202 "2010-10-03T16:35:23Z")
My brother had this problem once. The solution that worked for them: My brother paid the bill, first using the allotted amount. Anything over was taken from nephew’s allowance. If the amount was still over, my nephew’s door came off (literally) until the bill was paid. Also, nephew didn’t want to be uncool and have brand x item when everyone else had brand y. My brother purchased the identical item, providing it was an acceptable snack item. It seemed to work in their case. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/203 "2010-10-03T17:26:40Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Check the “or something similar” in her statement before you start ROFLing and mocking her. I’ve found a number of higher protein nutrition bars with decent nutrition, which easily look better than 600+ calorie, pretty much no-protein muffins full of trans-fats to keep them moist and garbage carbs WRT the glycemic index. Did someone pee on your well-balanced breakfast this morning or something? Not only that, but **tumbledown** is wrong: [Nature Valley Granola Bar](http://www.dietfacts.com/html/nutrition-facts/nature-valley-crunchy-granola-bars-oats-n-honey-flavor-834.htm) (double everything for a real serving–who just eats one bar of the two in a packet?) [Hershey’s Milk Chocolate Bar](http://www.hersheys.com/products/details/hersheysbar.asp). The granola bar pair has 47 grams, 200 calories, 54 calories from fat, 0 g saturated fat, 4 grams protein. The Hershey’s milk chocolate bar has 43 grams, 210 calories, 110 calories from fat, 8 g saturated fat, 3 grams protein. The only part that was correct was the claim that the granola bar has more sodium: 170 mg compared to 35 mg. Note that I’m looking at their crunchy Oats and Honey bar, because that’s the one I had a lot as a kid and that’s what I think of as their signature granola bar. Their revoltingly sticky chewy bars, or the ones full of disgusting choco chips, are another matter entirely. Edit: on second look, they’re still better than the muffin, given **runner pat’s** post: half the fat, no cholesterol, three times the fiber. And that’s for one of the nastiest candybarest granola bars out there. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/204 "2010-10-03T17:28:56Z")
> [@](#): > > If the amount was still over, my nephew’s door came off (literally) until the bill was paid. This works for all sorts of teen discipline problems, by the way. One of my daughter’s high school teachers recommended it when we had a problem with her doing and turning in her homework. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/205 "2010-10-03T20:01:07Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > **Kirkland Signature Blueberry Muffin** (which I picked because many schools shop at warehouse clubs) > > Calories 612 > Total Fat 32.1g > Saturated Fat 6.0g > Cholesterol 125mg > Sodium 591mg > Total Carbohydrates 71.2g > Dietary Fiber 2.0g > Sugars 40.1g > > **Quakers Chewy Granola Bar (Chocolate Chip)** > > Calories 100 > Total Fat 3 g > Saturated Fat 1 g > Cholesterol 0 mg > Sodium 95 mg > Total Carbs 17 g > Dietary Fiber 1 g > Sugars 7 g > > Yup, I can see how you can lump a granola bar in with a muffin. Don’t compare a granola bar with a product that no school is going to provide for students. Schools don’t buy their student food from Costco bakeries. The central kitchens may order ingredients from many sources. Schools don’t make money on food. They usually lose money. [Here’s a good article](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/pacificnw/2012903500_pacificplunch26.html) on how it works. The schools have about $1 in food costs to spend per lunch. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/206 "2010-10-03T20:52:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > > [@needscoffee](#): > > > > How has the school overridden the parent’s wishes? They had no way of knowing that he wasn’t a hungry kid whose parents had neglected to pay his bill. She only just told them about the problem on 9/30. They told her that they won’t let kids go hungry _last year_, presumably long before this ever happened. All she had to do was call up the lunchroom and talk to the lunch ladies and see if this was something that could easily be handled. Alternatively, she emailed them and is waiting to hear back. How many more people are going to post how outraged they are that the school won’t follow her (up until now unstated) wishes? > > According to the op the school’s policy is not to turn away a hungry child. They stated a general policy last year (one which is admirable under most conditions). Only now has she let them know of her situation. They can’t read her mind. She knew of their policy yet is now complaining that they haven’t changed it for her situation, yet how could they know until she told them, finally, last week? She indicates that is the first she actually communicated with them. ---
**Author:** ![Amber\_in\_Treasury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Amber\_in\_Treasury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amber_in_Treasury)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/207 "2010-10-03T23:49:24Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > > [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > > > I think there’s a big difference between the school offering a piece of toast with peanut butter spread on it, and offering something like a chocolate chocolate chip muffin. > > Peanut butter in a school? Doesn’t that result in men in hazmat suits chanting hut-hut-hut while rappelling down ropes from black helicopters? You mean the cafeteria probably doesn’t serve buckeyes then? ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/208 "2010-10-04T00:02:01Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Don’t compare a granola bar with a product that no school is going to provide for students. Schools don’t buy their student food from Costco bakeries. The central kitchens may order ingredients from many sources. > > Schools don’t make money on food. They usually lose money. [Here’s a good article](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/pacificnw/2012903500_pacificplunch26.html) on how it works. The schools have about $1 in food costs to spend per lunch. Well, the muffins and sweet rolls they sell at my son’s school are exactly the same brand they sell at Costco. The wrapper is exactly the same. I don’t like it much, but it’s the truth. So while they may not be buying them from Cosco, they may be buying them from the same supplier as Costco buys theirs. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/209 "2010-10-04T00:10:41Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > A 15 year old boy will not be satisfied with a single granola a bar, they’re the nearest thing to a black hole known. My dad still regales us with the story of my older brother eating 6 Whoppers in one sitting. Of course, he was also either working out or doing sports every waking moment he wasn’t in class or studying. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/210 "2010-10-04T01:58:36Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > > [@needscoffee](#): > > > > Don’t compare a granola bar with a product that no school is going to provide for students. Schools don’t buy their student food from Costco bakeries. The central kitchens may order ingredients from many sources. > > > > Schools don’t make money on food. They usually lose money. [Here’s a good article](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/pacificnw/2012903500_pacificplunch26.html) on how it works. The schools have about $1 in food costs to spend per lunch. > > Well, the muffins and sweet rolls they sell at my son’s school are exactly the same brand they sell at Costco. The wrapper is exactly the same. I don’t like it much, but it’s the truth. So while they may not be buying them from Cosco, they may be buying them from the same supplier as Costco buys theirs. Wow, I take it back. I thought you were talking about those giant muffins that Costco bakes that can feed a family. Our district doesn’t serve anything like this, at least in K-8. Occasionally they’ll get some sort of promotional baked good, but ordinarily they bake their own, usually with some amount of whole-grain flour. The linked article says that they sometimes do that to get the calorie counts up to the prescribed amount. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/211 "2010-10-04T02:26:28Z")
FWIW, although schools do lose money off the mandated hot lunches, some schools subsidize these losses by selling snacks. I know our district has some guidelines as to what snacks are available, but those guidelines are questionable: 100% fruit juices are okay, for example, despite their lack of any redeeming nutritional value. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/212 "2010-10-04T03:40:34Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > > [@Magiver](#): > > > > According to the op the school’s policy is not to turn away a hungry child. > > They stated a general policy last year (one which is admirable under most conditions). Only now has she let them know of her situation. They can’t read her mind. She knew of their policy yet is now complaining that they haven’t changed it for her situation, yet how could they know until she told them, finally, last week? She indicates that is the first she actually communicated with them. Last year he was at the middle school, so I’m not entirely sure that the policy is the same at the high school. I still think it’s a ridiculous policy to give kids an unlimited line of credit without even contacting the parents. Anyway I am not complaining that they haven’t changed it for my situation, I’m simply complaining that it’s a stupid policy. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/213 "2010-10-04T03:45:38Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > Last year he was at the middle school, so I’m not entirely sure that the policy is the same at the high school. I still think it’s a ridiculous policy to give kids an unlimited line of credit without even contacting the parents. Anyway I am not complaining that they haven’t changed it for my situation, I’m simply complaining that it’s a stupid policy. The whole rest of the discussion aside, I agree that this is a stupid policy. I mentioned earlier that my son’s school lets you go 2 or 3 meals in the hole and then you get pb&j or a plain cheese sandwich free of charge if you are hungry. Much better policy. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/214 "2010-10-04T04:12:44Z")
In our huge school district, as soon as the balance gets below $5, an auto dialer calls the home with a recorded announcement that the balance is low. It’s presumed that the family has an answering machine and a current phone number on file. Does your school? Could your son be intercepting the call? ---
**Author:** ![Zulema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/db5fbb/32.png) [@Zulema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zulema)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/215 "2010-10-04T06:00:03Z")
Our school system lets the parent block any a la cart foods like muffins and I’m pretty sure we can block breakfasts. I don’t think it’s reasonable for him to think he can buy a dessert type item in the morning every day if you have already said he can’t. If he is actually hungry before lunch he should be able to eat something that he brings to school or occasionally buy a healthier breakfast item. My son, who is in high school, has boxes of Nature Valley granola bars in his locker most of the time. He can eat both bars from the package for less than 200 calories. If he decided to spend a little extra money every day on a treat I would probably see if it’s something that can be brought from home and supply it. My older son, who graduated a few years ago, would buy a milkshake every day at lunch. We never said anything to him. We decided it was fairly harmless and not something he can bring from home for cheaper. If we had said he couldn’t and he still did that would have been a problem. My kids have no concept of brands so they wouldn’t be embarrassed to eat an off-brand treat. ---
**Author:** ![Girl\_From\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3da27b/32.png) [@Girl\_From\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Girl_From_Mars)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/216 "2010-10-04T08:53:33Z")
Could you simply change the bank account the meals are charged to, and set one up in his name? Put in his $20 or whatever amount per week and say that’s his allowance for everything (food, entertainment etc). What he chooses to spend on school meals is less to spend on other things. This (plus giving him healthy options for free at home) may encourage him to reconsider what he spends at school while giving him some responsibility. Additionally, when you’ve discussed the rule breaking with him, Opal - what does he say? Why is he doing this when you’ve asked him not to? ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/217 "2010-10-04T22:52:48Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > > [@pedescribe](#): > > > > What’s wrong with muffins? ☹ > > Nothing as long as it’s just the top. Can’t stand the stumps! The top? Yuck! That’s where the spores are! ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/218 "2010-10-04T22:59:55Z")
> [@Cyberhwk](#): > > > [@runner pat](#): > > > > A 15 year old boy will not be satisfied with a single granola a bar, they’re the nearest thing to a black hole known. > > My dad still regales us with the story of my older brother eating 6 Whoppers in one sitting. Of course, he was also either working out or doing sports every waking moment he wasn’t in class or studying. I got queasy just reading that. Then again, I’m not a 15-year-old boy. The Other Shoe remembers being that age - frankly, I can’t imagine what it’s like to be ravenous like that all day, every day. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/219 "2010-10-04T23:43:21Z")
> [@Girl\_From\_Mars](#): > > Could you simply change the bank account the meals are charged to, and set one up in his name? Put in his $20 or whatever amount per week and say that’s his allowance for everything (food, entertainment etc). What he chooses to spend on school meals is less to spend on other things. This (plus giving him healthy options for free at home) may encourage him to reconsider what he spends at school while giving him some responsibility. > > Additionally, when you’ve discussed the rule breaking with him, Opal - what does he say? Why is he doing this when you’ve asked him not to? They’re not tied to a bank account. They’re prepaid. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2010, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543/220 "2010-10-05T00:29:06Z")
I think there are several layers to this problem, each of which have to be considered. First, there is the fact that your son is spending money that doesn’t belong to him. I think the solution to that is to charge him for it. Everything he spends that isn’t on lunch, he pays for from his allowance or by working it off around the house. Second, there’s the issue of eating junk food. He’s 15 years old, and you can’t control what he eats anymore. You can insist he eat a healthy breakfast before he leaves the house, but you can’t police it every minute of the day. You need to let go of that a little, I think, or you will drive yourself crazy (and him, too). Which leads to the third problem…the lying. This is the touchiest area, and I’m going to say something that people probably won’t agree with, but…I think these kinds of lies aren’t that serious. And, quite frankly, I think he was driven to it a little bit. Kids his age need some autonomy, and if they aren’t given any, they’ll lie to get it. It’s not that unusual, and it’s not the end of the world. I’m not saying you don’t need to give him limits, you obviously do. But whether or not he’s allowed to eat a muffin is not the place to draw a hard line. So, if I were you, I’d just let him know the things you are willing to pay for (you can say no junk at lunchtime, too, if you want), and he can make the choice as to whatever else he wants to buy, but he’s got to pay for it. Now he’s got no reason to lie, and you don’t have to pay for the stuff you don’t want to endorse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-be-allowed-to-charge-up-food-at-school-to-any-amount-he-wants/555543.md?page=12)