Should my son learn cursive

In My Humble Opinion
81

[QUOTE=Capt. Ridley’s Shooting Party]
Is cursvie really all that rare in the US, or is this another oddity of the SDMB? Everybody who I know writes in cursive. When faced with a written handwritten document, all in printed letters, I can’t help but think that the author is undereducated or a bit childish.

I’ve got to ask, though, how it’s even possible for somebody to write faster in block capitals, rather than cursive, as some are suggesting here. Are you mistaking a particular style of handwriting, that you learned in school, for all cursive handwriting?
[/QUOTE]

I’m in the US, and I was wondering the same thing. I have been reading this thread with my jaw dropped open. To me learning how to write (not print) is a basic skill that I cannot fathom becoming obsolete. My apologies to Manda JO, and WhyNot’s mother, because I have come to respect them both, but their opinions on this as teachers absolutely horrifies me. I cannot prove it, so no cite, but it has always been my opinion that writing by hand stimulates the brain in ways that printing and typing cannot accomplish. I am a good typist, but I make horrible errors in typing out my own thoughts all the time, that I would never make in writing by hand. I’m not talking about typos, like transposing letters. I am always leaving words out of sentences and letters out of words. My brain just skips right over them.

My 20 year-old stepson did not learn cursive as a youngster, because of fine motor skill difficulties relating to his Asperger’s syndrome. In him, I accept that limitation. (And no, videogames do not teach the same skills; he’s an expert gamer.) But, just the other day, I left him a short note, (only a sentence or two) in my own, very neat, legible cursive. He told me not to write to him in cursive anymore because he couldn’t read it.

Kid’s got another thing coming. I’m going to keep on writing to him in cursive, because even if he can’t write it, he’s damn well going to learn to read it.

82

[QUOTE=KayElCee]
Kid’s got another thing coming. I’m going to keep on writing to him in cursive, because even if he can’t write it, he’s damn well going to learn to read it.
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I should add, he was exaggerating when he said he couldn’t read it, since he did what I asked in the note, without clarification. What he meant is that it took him a little extra effort to read it. He is kind of a lazy kid.

83

I’m amazed at all the people who say that cursive is inherently faster than other writing. I’d love to race them, my printing vs their cursive. I may be the only one who can read it, but who cares? When I need it to be legible to others, I write in small caps - which I can also do pretty darn fast. When I do cursive it’s slow and looks like I’m still in second grade.

I can read cursive, but it’s not any more inherently legible than anything else. My mom’s is nice, some of my coworkers have had chicken-scratching. When I see it in comics, I want to smack the letterer.

Being able to touch-type is a much more useful skill.

84

[QUOTE=Silver Tyger Girl]
Being able to touch-type is a much more useful skill.
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…but irrelevant to the discussion, because being able to write doesn’t mean you can’t type too.

85

[QUOTE=KayElCee]
I’m in the US, and I was wondering the same thing. I have been reading this thread with my jaw dropped open. To me learning how to write (not print) is a basic skill that I cannot fathom becoming obsolete. My apologies to Manda JO, and WhyNot’s mother, because I have come to respect them both, but their opinions on this as teachers absolutely horrifies me. I cannot prove it, so no cite, but it has always been my opinion that writing by hand stimulates the brain in ways that printing and typing cannot accomplish.
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That sounds like pop psychology BS to me. Cursive “stimulates the brain?” It is an antiquated form of writing, nothing more, nothing less.

86

[QUOTE=dalej42]
That sounds like pop psychology BS to me. Cursive “stimulates the brain?” It is an antiquated form of writing, nothing more, nothing less.
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I don’t go in for pop psychology, in fact, I abhor it, and I said I did say I cannot prove my opinion. All I know is that I have ridiculous brain farts when I type, that I do not have when I express myself in writing.

Antiquated? I’m only 48, and not only was I taught cursive in school, it was heavily emphasized. Perhaps it is somewhat old-fashioned, but antiquated? Please. The more I read, the more I am being convinced that this resistance to cursive, is, as **Captain Ridley’s Shooting Party **suggested, more SDMB-centric BS.

87

[QUOTE=acsenray]
They didn’t need to. The first time handwriting was taught, it was through copying a particular copperplate-style hand. But once that year was over, no teacher ever insisted that students stick to that particular hand.
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Yeah, so you can mix and match standard styles if you want, but deviating from standards means that you run the risk of making your deviations incomprehensible to other people reading it. If I write my “I” differently than Zaner-Bloser wants me to, then how will other people reading it know that it’s an I? Some flexibility has to be allowed for, but like “creative spelling,” there are standards for a reason.

The first time I took the SAT, I copied the pledge carefully. Took me forever. Then I realized it didn’t matter a damn, and scribbled it out in about 10 seconds. None of it was legible.

The only reason I can think of for learning cursive is that so you can read it. But it seems pretty archaic to me.

88

Add me to the list of people who are shocked that it’s even a topic of discussion. My nephews can’t write in cursive and their printing looks like a 2-year-old’s scribble. It’s obviously labored to form each letter. There is no way they can take good notes with their current skill level.

I can’t imagine, in the world of business, what my bosses would think if I showed him/her my notes from a meeting and it looked like I had used a crayon in my nose. My last boss was from another country and his English was better than most Americans. He could easily have taught it in HS.

While some people think it’s unfair to judge people based on observation there is a level of truth behind the judgments made. When an expected skill set is missing or done poorly it is assumed that other skill sets are missing or done poorly.

89

[QUOTE=KayElCee]
The more I read, the more I am being convinced that this resistance to cursive, is, as **Captain Ridley’s Shooting Party **suggested, more SDMB-centric BS.
[/QUOTE]

Nope. It’s very real.

http://www.aft.org/pubs-reports/american_teacher/mar04/speakout.html
http://teacherleaders.typepad.com/tln_teacher_voices/2006/10/the_pros_and_co.html

It’s still debated, of course. But not just by us.

90

[QUOTE=Magiver]
Add me to the list of people who are shocked that it’s even a topic of discussion. My nephews can’t write in cursive and their printing looks like a 2-year-old’s scribble. It’s obviously labored to form each letter. There is no way they can take good notes with their current skill level.
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So how would teaching them another form of writing help with this? Wouldn’t that just make them poor at two skills? Shouldn’t they spend the time practicing their printing - the writing which really is required on countless forms, from supermarket discount cards to government id requests?

91

[QUOTE=WhyNot]
So how would teaching them another form of writing help with this? Wouldn’t that just make them poor at two skills? Shouldn’t they spend the time practicing their printing - the writing which really is required on countless forms, from supermarket discount cards to government id requests?
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Writing in cursive and printing are not “two skills”, unless you consider “drawing trees” and “drawing bushes” to be two different skills.

92

[QUOTE=BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed]
Yeah, so you can mix and match standard styles if you want, but deviating from standards means that you run the risk of making your deviations incomprehensible to other people reading it. If I write my “I” differently than Zaner-Bloser wants me to, then how will other people reading it know that it’s an I? Some flexibility has to be allowed for, but like “creative spelling,” there are standards for a reason.
[/QUOTE]

This is simply not how human language works. The human mind can deal with a wide range of variation. Learning to read, whether it’s printed or handwritten material, is not simply based on recognizing individual letters. Neither is writing, and neither is typing, for that matter, any more than recognizing spoken language is based on the recognition of individual phonemes.

93

My daughter says to tell you it isn’t necessary. She has Cerebral Palsy – mostly effecting her gross motor skills, but with some fine motor impairments. When her class learned cursive, she had some trouble with it due to the fine motor issues. The school wanted to add a resource class in cursive to her other special ed classes. She was being pulled out for math class and reading class at the time and I didn’t want to increase her time outside her mainstream class, so I declined the extra cursive class. Consequently, she never learned to ‘write.’

She is 21 now and a rising junior in college. According to her she has never missed being able to write in cursive at all. She did learn a signature – in her case, she uses a mixture of printing and joined writing to produce a signature which is comfortable & quick – but for everything else, including personal letter and thank you notes, she uses printing.

For what it’s worth, my husband and son never uses cursive, either, accept in their signatures. They both learned cursive in school but haven’t used it since. They print anything that needs to be written my hand.

94

[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
Writing in cursive and printing are not “two skills”, unless you consider “drawing trees” and “drawing bushes” to be two different skills.
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Then I guess we can discount the arguments that cursive improves small motor skills or brain development in a way that printing doesn’t.

I do consider them two skills, because they’re called for in different situations and, increasingly, not interchangeable.

95

Gosh, I didn’t know this simple question would cause such heated discussion.

I asked him last night if he felt that he need to learn it and he said yes, but he didn’t want to spend a lot of time on it. I just printed out some worksheets from the internet showing capital and small letters, and some sample cursive sentences.

He also said that when his brother (who is in 3rd grade and will be learning cursive this year) gets his cursive homework, the older boy will also follow along.

He seems to want to, so I’ll give him the tools to learn.

96

[QUOTE=WhyNot]
So how would teaching them another form of writing help with this? Wouldn’t that just make them poor at two skills? Shouldn’t they spend the time practicing their printing - the writing which really is required on countless forms, from supermarket discount cards to government id requests?
[/QUOTE]
They should spend time learning the skills that best help them. Cursive writing is an efficient way of taking notes and it follows the skill to print.

From my observations there has been a general decline in academic achievement in American schools. My depression-era parents had a better HS education than I had. With the advent of the grading curve it is impossible to gauge the level of achievement by looking at GPA. Today, it’s a minor miracle if a high school graduate can make change.

97

[QUOTE=WhyNot]
Then I guess we can discount the arguments that cursive improves small motor skills or brain development in a way that printing doesn’t.

I do consider them two skills, because they’re called for in different situations and, increasingly, not interchangeable.
[/QUOTE]

The difference is that printing is what comes out when you write. Cursive is conditioned, not what comes naturally- which means you need to practice.

98

[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
The difference is that printing is what comes out when you write. Cursive is conditioned, not what comes naturally- which means you need to practice.
[/QUOTE]

I’m not sure I understand you. Are you saying printing doesn’t need to be taught? Or that it can’t be improved with practice? Or that people who know both will automatically print, given their druthers? None of those are true, of course.

Cursive is just as arbitrary and “conditioned” a skill as printing can be. It’s just not as useful today. Should the kid be taught if he wants to learn? Of course. Just like he should be taught fine woodworking or leathercraft if he wants to learn. I’m just saying it’s not a *necessary *skill these days.

“Should my son learn cursive [to be a well-rounded functional adult]?” No. “Could my son learn cursive?” Of course!

99

[QUOTE=autz]
Gosh, I didn’t know this simple question would cause such heated discussion.
[/QUOTE]
I think people feel about this the way they do about declawing cats and shoes on or off inside the house.

As for me, I see cursive as a hindrance mostly. My penmanship is fine, easily read and neat…and I haven’t used cursive since forced to in elementary school.

100

[QUOTE=WhyNot]
Then I guess we can discount the arguments that cursive improves small motor skills or brain development in a way that printing doesn’t.

I do consider them two skills, because they’re called for in different situations and, increasingly, not interchangeable.
[/QUOTE]
Up until I read this thread, I would have considered them interchangeable for all American adults. I’ve always thought of them as two forms of the same alphabet–one faster but harder to read and one slower but easier to read. I’m quite surprised to hear cursive is being dropped from school curricula.

As for the upthread comments on signatures, I do have a “readable” signature, but my standard signature is more of a unique mark very loosely based on the shapes of some of the letters in my name.