# Should my son select a heavy or light Hot Wheels for a Hot Wheels race? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 8, 2020, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148 "2020-01-08T23:30:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/21 "2020-01-09T16:54:08Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Here’s Mark Rober, telling you [everything you need to know about what makes for a winning car](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RjJtO51ykY&t=350s). Dammit! I was gonna post that exact same video. For those who don’t recognize the name, he’s the porch pirate glitter bomb guy. > [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > The optimal Pinewood derby car is as long as possible (because you win when the front crosses the finish line, but you get potential energy based on the center of mass, which will be higher for a longer car), has most of its weight in the back, and has just three well-lubricated wheels to reduce friction (Seriously: see if you’re allowed to break off one of the front wheels). Apparently not. Rober’s model in his video has four wheels, but one raised so that it is cosmetic only. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/22 "2020-01-09T17:03:48Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Apparently not. Rober’s model in his video has four wheels, but one raised so that it is cosmetic only. Most districts require all four wheels to be present, but not necessarily touching the racing surface. Here is our rule, as an example: “Each car must include 4 “approved” wheels (wheels that meet the above criteria) and placed in the“normal” wheel position for a car. “Normal” position is 2 mounted on each side of the car and parallel to each other. Wheels may be staggered on each side of the car (See image 9). At least three (3) wheels must remain in contact with the track at all times. Although the 4th wheel does not need to contact the track, it must act as a guide to keep the car on the track against the center rail. Use of any other type of guide pin, fin or any other device is prohibited. No 3-wheeled cars.” ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/23 "2020-01-09T17:33:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > There would be no way to hide such a setup, and I’m pretty sure such a device would disqualify the car. Miniature warp drive, then. See if you can punch holes in _that_ suggestion. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/24 "2020-01-09T18:05:33Z")
My rules of thumb were: Add weight up to the maximum allowed. This was by far the best thing. Do a _lot_ of test runs to make sure the wheels are aligned. Use sewing machine oil. Graphite is for losers. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/25 "2020-01-09T18:16:16Z")
Also consider the long-term social status benefit of having the coolest car going down the track, rather than the fastest. Look into flashing LED’s, smoke effects, perhaps dipping the car in butane and lighting it before launching down the track…no one will be talking about the fastest car afterward 🙂 At my pinewood derby way back in the day, my slow-ass Snoopy Joe Cool racer with obnoxious tail fins, flame decals, and muffler kit (a kazoo glued to the top, it didn’t produce as near a cool as sound as hoped for) and a grimacing rubber Snoopy in the cockpit got me far more street cred than the fastest kid’s car. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/26 "2020-01-09T18:27:22Z")
Hijack but is a race between Hot Wheels/Matchbox cars a replacement for the old pinewood derby race held by the Boy Scouts? Because as I remember, building a pinewood derby car required the kid or parent to do some carpentry and lots of families aren’t set up to do that stuff. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/27 "2020-01-09T19:11:36Z")
It may be worth doing trial runs on a bare slope, not an actual track. That would make it obvious if the wheels are misaligned (i.e. car won’t go perfectly straight). ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/28 "2020-01-09T21:07:49Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Hijack but is a race between Hot Wheels/Matchbox cars a replacement for the old pinewood derby race held by the Boy Scouts? Because as I remember, building a pinewood derby car required the kid or parent to do some carpentry and lots of families aren’t set up to do that stuff. I don’t think so. Pinewood derby races are still pretty big. I figured this was just something they had at the camp we’re going to. > [@GargoyleWB](#): > > Also consider the long-term social status benefit of having the coolest car going down the track, rather than the fastest. The plan I have is to have one fast one and one that we just pick because it’s cool. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/29 "2020-01-09T21:18:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Rolling resistance might not be proportional to weight, either, but I’m pretty sure that it goes the other way, such that it’d be totally insignificant for a toy car. Rolling resistance comes from changing deformation of the wheels, and I highly doubt that the deformation of a Hot Wheels car’s wheels under its weight is even measurable. But also from misalignment of the wheels, and alignment does change with the weight of the cars – at least it does on corners and at run-outs. ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/30 "2020-01-10T00:19:06Z")
I think we have just seen the elusive double Whoosh with **Czarcasm** ’s responses to **Kayaker** ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/31 "2020-01-10T02:16:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > There would be no way to hide such a setup, and I’m pretty sure such a device would disqualify the car. I used to have a nitrous oxide-equipped car. The nitrous system can be hidden. The internal combustion engine that burns the nitrous would be hard to hide, especially on a little pinewood derby car. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/32 "2020-01-10T02:43:43Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I know it is pricey, but consider adding nitrous oxide to your system. That would certainly make the race more fun, but getting stoned would not improve the performance of your car. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/33 "2020-01-10T04:25:49Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > That would certainly make the race more fun, but getting stoned would not improve the performance of your car. You won’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Mesquite-oh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a183cd/32.png) [@Mesquite-oh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mesquite-oh)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/34 "2020-01-10T05:48:21Z")
For once, a general question that I am a semi-expert at. As a Dad, I am a successful veteran of 5 Pinewood Derbies and one Lego Derby. I also run dozens of Hot Wheel races per week as part of my job. With Pinewood Derby/Lego Derby races, the Mark Rober model works (as heavy as allowed, low profile, weight in the back, sanded axles with graphite). I had three kids go through Cubbies and we got a few trophies, always in the top 5. I work with kids. When they do well, they can play in my office with a toy of their choosing. I have a Hot Wheels track that unfolds to make a four lane race track. I have a bin full of cars. Kids bring in their own cars to challenge my cars. I race a lot. My observations: In general, cars that say “Made for track” or mention that they are meant for usage on a track are going to win. In general, these cars follow the Mark Rober model- heavy, low, with weight on the back. Look at the cars that are included with race tracks to get a general feel of what track cars look like. That being said, not all these cars are always the fastest. There are some cars that are consistently fast that don’t follow the above model at all. In general, cars get slower the more you use them. Not all cars are consistent day to day. On some days they run fast, and on some days they are a step slower. However, in general, your top five cars stay your top five cars. My recommendation is to buy 10 cars, test them out, and see which one wins the most. ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/35 "2020-01-10T06:40:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > There would be no way to hide such a setup, and I’m pretty sure such a device would disqualify the car. Imagine being this person. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/36 "2020-01-10T07:26:30Z")
Back on topic. Hot Wheels and Matchbox! This is definitely cheating! [https://www.racehotwheels.com/2017/09/are-you-ready-to-make-your-car-faster.html](https://www.racehotwheels.com/2017/09/are-you-ready-to-make-your-car-faster.html) As I posted earlier, the easiest and quickest way to make your Hot Wheel faster is to align the tires. If you look at the car from below, even right out of the package, the tires aren’t perfectly in line with each other and straight. Just like your real car, misaligned tires will cause it to drift right or left. This is critical for Hot Wheels because every time they touch the side of the track they slow down. Johnny Lightning cars were touted to be faster than Hot Wheels and most of them were. However, a least one model had little plastic headers that would touch the sides of the track and was slower than the Hot Wheels. Proof that weight isn’t everything is that early Matchbox cars were generally heavier than Hot Wheels, but because of the different types of axles were slower than them. After all, that’s what Hot Wheels were all about, being faster than other diecast cars. The same marketing done for Johnny Lightning, faster than Hot Wheels. And finally, what may be the definitive answer. Note that weight isn’t the only factor. [http://www.racehotwheels.com/2016/02/five-fast-hot-wheels-cars-that-you-need.html](http://www.racehotwheels.com/2016/02/five-fast-hot-wheels-cars-that-you-need.html) My memory is strong and my Google Fu even stronger! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/37 "2020-01-10T15:00:26Z")
Well obviously weight and alignment aren’t the ONLY factors. You also need flame decals on the sides. Everyone knows those make a car go faster. ---
**Author:** ![Junkman209](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/junkman209/32/5522_2.png) [@Junkman209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Junkman209)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/38 "2020-01-10T21:19:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > There would be no way to hide such a setup, and I’m pretty sure such a device would disqualify the car. That is the main reason such a setup would be so pricey. Hard enough to scale a Nitrous Oxide system to that size, but masking it so the judges won’t notice is VERY pricey! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/39 "2020-01-10T23:03:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If the only forces involved were gravity, normal force, and dry friction, then the weight of the car would be irrelevant, since all of those forces are proportional to mass. > > But those aren’t the only forces. Air resistance is also present, and extremely relevant. And it is not proportional to mass. So you want the mass as great as possible, to reduce the relevance of air resistance. > … We experimented with Pinewood derby cars. Once you cut down air resistance, the heavier the faster. No doubt. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/40 "2020-01-10T23:04:33Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Here’s Mark Rober, telling you [everything you need to know about what makes for a winning car](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RjJtO51ykY&t=350s). which was? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148.md?page=3)