# Should my son select a heavy or light Hot Wheels for a Hot Wheels race? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 8, 2020, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148 "2020-01-08T23:30:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/41 "2020-01-10T23:06:14Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Which is why NOS is pricey, since it has to be scaled down.😕 They have no engine. It’s just gravity. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/42 "2020-01-10T23:06:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Well obviously weight and alignment aren’t the ONLY factors. You also need flame decals on the sides. Everyone knows those make a car go faster. Don’t forget the speed holes. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/43 "2020-01-10T23:08:07Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Aren’t the weights of pinewood derby cars strictly controlled? Which is why the derby participants try to gain advantage by distributing the weight in different ways? > … No heavier than 4 oz, iirc. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/44 "2020-01-11T02:26:30Z")
Heavier builds more momentum. Once off the slope, rolling friction provides a constant drag, fairly speed independent. With more momentum, the heavier vehicle will resist that drag longer, You will not get anywhere near speeds where wind speed will be a major, and mass independent factor. When I raced them, the heavier cars always won, barring cruddy bearings etc. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/45 "2020-01-11T05:55:44Z")
> [@Junkman209](#): > > That is the main reason such a setup would be so pricey. Hard enough to scale a Nitrous Oxide system to that size, but masking it so the judges won’t notice is VERY pricey! Time travel about 4 or 5 centuries into the future, and get a Romulan cloaking device. Once you’ve got it scaled down, you’re golden. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/46 "2020-01-11T05:59:42Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Well obviously weight and alignment aren’t the ONLY factors. You also need flame decals on the sides. Everyone knows those make a car go faster. :smack: Of course! That’s why Hot Wheels are faster than Matchbox. The name is IN a flame decal! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/47 "2020-01-11T06:05:28Z")
The Mythbusters talked about and tested the physics of Hot Wheels…err Johnny Lightning cars on a Hot Wheels type track in Toy Car vs Real Car. [https://is.nisd.us/apps/video/watch.jsp?v=72436](https://is.nisd.us/apps/video/watch.jsp?v=72436) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/48 "2020-01-11T16:53:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Squink** : > > Heavier builds more momentum. Once off the slope, rolling friction provides a constant drag, fairly speed independent. With more momentum, the heavier vehicle will resist that drag longer, > You will not get anywhere near speeds where wind speed will be a major, and mass independent factor. > When I raced them, the heavier cars always won, barring cruddy bearings etc. A lot to unpack, here. First, rolling resistance is proportional to speed. Second, it’s not a big factor here, because it’s based on the deformation of the wheels. What you’re probably thinking of is friction with the axle, which would behave as dry friction. Third, the relevant question is not whether it depends on speed, but whether it’s proportional to the mass, which both rolling resistance and dry friction are, so if that were all that were relevant, the heavier car would have more momentum but also more resistive force, and end up with the same acceleration and hence same speed at every moment. Fourth, such cars are absolutely at a speed where air resistance is relevant, _for them_. Air resistance at that speed would be negligible for a real car, but that’s because real cars have much more mass. The more mass you have, the less relevant the air resistance is, which is why we want more mass. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/49 "2020-01-11T17:49:22Z")
We tested all of my son’s cars down in the basement, using a table as a long ramp. Not idea and not identical to the final races, but enough to get a feel for which cars were fastest. We picked the top two fastest. Then today, I took him to the store and said if we can find any FTE cars or anyting specific for racing, I’ll buy it for him and we can take those. We picked two cars at the store that were, by complete coincidence, almost identical to the used ones we found to be fast yesterday. They are labeled “best for track racing” on the box and we’re hopeful they will work well since they are new in the box. I can report back with how it goes after next weekend! ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/50 "2020-01-11T18:13:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > rolling resistance is proportional to speed. Second, it’s not a big factor here, because it’s based on the deformation of the wheels. Some of it is not from wheel deformation, but simply from two surfaces, not perfectly smooth, moving past each each other. A hair on the track, or similar, or just track roughness, has its own speed dependent cost. Wood and rubber, or hard plastic, do not slide past each other with zero friction, even with no significant deformation. I may very well have wind resistance wrong, as I’m thinking of cars massing half a kilo. It will be an issue for say 100 gram cars, ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/51 "2020-01-11T18:40:34Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > Imagine being this person. > [@DrDeth](#): > > They have no engine. It’s just gravity. Demonstrably, there are worse fates. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/52 "2020-01-11T20:32:15Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > Demonstrably, there are worse fates. :smack: Sometimes the best answer to a bad whoosh is a deadpan correct answer. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/53 "2020-01-11T21:25:05Z")
Another factor for Hot Wheels is that the early production tires have a lip on the inner edge, reducing surface contact which may increase or reduce speed. [https://onlineredlineguide.com/wheels/wheels.html](https://onlineredlineguide.com/wheels/wheels.html) In the tweaks link I gave above, the first tip is sanding the tires, which I assume is to increase the tires grip, but also would reduce of remove the lip. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/54 "2020-01-11T21:38:08Z")
Anecdotelly, I disgree with the assertion that Hot Wheels are faster than MAtchbox cars. I had two cars in particular that the Hot wheels cars couldn’t even come close to beating during my racing days in the 70s. 😃 Meet [Hairy Hustler](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0072/7502/0346/products/IMG_7917_1024x1024@2x.jpg?v=1565304721) and [Blue Shark](https://matchbox.fandom.com/wiki/Blue_Shark), which were virtually undefeated. Can’t speak to the Johnny Lightning cars as they weren’t available to me then. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/55 "2020-01-11T22:23:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Squink** : > > Wood and rubber, or hard plastic, do not slide past each other with zero friction, even with no significant deformation. In fact, the reason why rubber is the favored material for tires is that it slides past most other materials with a very great deal of friction. But we’re not talking about sliding, here: We’re talking about rolling. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/56 "2020-01-11T23:50:55Z")
> [@swampspruce](#): > > Anecdotelly, I disgree with the assertion that Hot Wheels are faster than MAtchbox cars. I had two cars in particular that the Hot wheels cars couldn’t even come close to beating during my racing days in the 70s. 😃 Meet [Hairy Hustler](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0072/7502/0346/products/IMG_7917_1024x1024@2x.jpg?v=1565304721) and [Blue Shark](https://matchbox.fandom.com/wiki/Blue_Shark), which were virtually undefeated. Can’t speak to the Johnny Lightning cars as they weren’t available to me then. Good info. I wonder if Matchbox designed/redesigned their cars after Hot Wheels were introduced in 1968, the selling point of course was the race track that hadn’t existed before. I had Matchbox and Corgi cars prior the Hot Wheels intro (I got my first set Christmas '68) and never bought any after that. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/57 "2020-01-12T02:40:36Z")
What brand was it that had a single sheet of die-stamped metal (no undercarriage, no plastic), in a uniform color? I had a lot of those. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/58 "2020-01-12T03:40:28Z")
> [@lingyi](#): > > I wonder if Matchbox designed/redesigned their cars after Hot Wheels were introduced in 1968, the selling point of course was the race track that hadn’t existed before. They absolutely did. Look at [a Matchbox car from the 1960s](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dc/c4/8a/dcc48a2e08d7ed934f716f1e110c2bcc.jpg) (Hot Wheels were introduced in '68) – Matchboxes weren’t built for racing, but for general play – the wheels were hard plastic, and the axles were essentially nails. Mattel’s designers specifically designed their cars (with low-friction wheels and axles) for speed. When Hot Wheels were first introduced, they were wildly popular, and Matchbox responded by changing their wheel and axles to make them similarly fast to Hot Wheels. When Hot Wheels were first introduced, they _absolutely_ were faster than the Matchbox cars that were available at that time (because Matchbox cars weren’t originally designed for racing). > [@Chronos](#): > > What brand was it that had a single sheet of die-stamped metal (no undercarriage, no plastic), in a uniform color? I had a lot of those. [Those were probably Tootsietoys.](https://img.letgo.com/images/3e/bc/ef/53/3ebcef53c1d2dee5554551feec0595c9.jpg?impolicy=img_600) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/59 "2020-01-12T17:44:03Z")
Yup, I recognize all of those Tootsietoys, especially the one with the off-center cockpit with the single fin behind it. That’s definitely the brand. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148/60 "2020-01-12T18:07:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > …especially the one with the off-center cockpit with the single fin behind it… I think that’s supposed to be a D-Type Jaguar. And the pink ones behind it are, I think, Cheetahs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-my-son-select-a-heavy-or-light-hot-wheels-for-a-hot-wheels-race/846148.md?page=4)