# Should Neil Rogers be kicked off the air? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 9, 2002, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-neil-rogers-be-kicked-off-the-air/135984 "2002-11-09T04:44:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-neil-rogers-be-kicked-off-the-air/135984/1 "2002-11-09T04:44:31Z")
Neil Rogers does a daily talk radio show in Florida. _Talkers_ magazine, the industry’s leading trade publication, ranked him No. 15 on their list of greatest radio hosts of all time. A poster on another web site described him thus: > [@](#): > > Neil Rogers is a Catholic-bashing gay, whose paradies generally focus around toilet humor. Sometimes he’s funny. Mostly he’s gross. Anyhow, the current controversy revolves around a [parody song](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,69506,00.html) about Condoleezza Rice. > [@](#): > > “Is you their black-haired answer-mammy who be smart?” a song parody broadcast on Rogers’ show says. “Does they like how you shine their shoes, Condoleezza? Or the way you wash and park the whitey’s cars?” Niger Innis, spokesperson the Congress on Racial Equality, said he sees a double standard at play. > [@](#): > > If Rogers, instead of being a white liberal, were a white conservative like Rush Limbaugh using the type of language that Rogers was using, he’d be kicked off the air. I think Innis is right about what would happen to Rush Limbaugh if he broadcast these words about some African American. I think the same standard should apply to Neil Rogers. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-neil-rogers-be-kicked-off-the-air/135984/2 "2002-11-09T05:10:28Z")
Does anyone believe that Howard Stern is a “liberal”? Pro-gun. Pro-Capital punishment. Constantly mocking black speech. Frequently mocking black leaders. Fiscally conservative. Foreign relations hawk. (That I can recall, his only “liberal” stances are in regards to abortion and (his own) free speech.) Stern is never in (serious) danger of being censored. Are we expected to silence him, too? \* Maybe Rogers should be reined in by his handlers–or maybe we should simply accept that the First Amendment should be inclusive of jerks–even Catholic-bashing jerks. - I am not a fan of Howard, finding his humor 95% juvenile, 4% stupid, and 1% inspired: too little to justify listening to him when I am not forced to by people around me with loud radios. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-neil-rogers-be-kicked-off-the-air/135984/3 "2002-11-09T05:18:49Z")
—think Innis is right about what would happen to Rush Limbaugh if he broadcast these words about some African American.— I doubt it. Have you ever LISTENED to Rush? He’s funny as hell sometimes, but stuff like this is his stock and trade. He doesn’t deserve to go off the air either. My favorite was his recent assertion about liberal media bias stemming form some elaborate conspiracy theory about a story he read that was sponsored by the Times, but he claimed was censored out of the publication because it boded well for Republicans. Of course, the story was sitting on the frontpage the day he made this rant (Nov. 4). ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-neil-rogers-be-kicked-off-the-air/135984/4 "2002-11-09T05:52:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* Have you ever LISTENED to Rush? He’s funny as hell sometimes, but stuff like this is his stock and trade. I cannot recall ever having heard Limbaugh say anything remotely this raw. > [@](#): > > My favorite was his recent assertion about liberal media bias stemming form some elaborate conspiracy theory about a story he read that was sponsored by the Times, but he claimed was censored out of the publication because it boded well for Republicans. Of course, the story was sitting on the frontpage the day he made this rant (Nov. 4). I believe the story your thinking of may be the New York Times Poll that showed a sudden gain for Republicans right before the election. The Times’s faulty analysis was mentioned on several web sites. E.g., Andrew Sullivan > [@](#): > > RAINES ANTIDOTE: [USA Today](http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/2002-11-03-poll-usat_x.htm) gets exactly the same result as the New York Times in their latest Congressional generic poll - a sudden shift toward the Republicans. The difference is: USA Today’s editors aren’t so biased as to bury their story. Sullivan’s point was that the USA Today headline on 11/4 was **Late shift appears to favor GOP**. [The Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/03/national/03POLL.html) headline was **In Poll, Americans Say Both Parties Lack Clear Vision** They did report the Republican shift, but it was down in the 6[sup]th[/sup] paragraph. Then the article argued that the shift was not significant. > [@](#): > > But that question, known as a generic ballot question, is a measure of national sentiment, and does not necessarily reflect how Americans will vote in the governor’s races around the country and in the handful of close Senate and House races that will ultimately determine the control of Congress. > > The concern among Democrats about the nation’s direction and the economy suggests that Democratic voters might be more motivated to cast their ballots on Tuesday and respond to the ambitious get-out-the-vote drives that have been organized by the Democratic Party, aimed in particular at voters who are distressed about the economy. Now that the results are in, we can see that the Times blew it. Rush correctly criticized their analysis _before_ the election. BTW the Times headline not only missed the key element in the survey, it also wasn’t accurate. Those polled said the Republicans _did_ have a vision by 42% to 39% and the Dems _did not_ have a vision 49% to 31%. [Mickey Kaus](http://slate.msn.com/default.aspx?id=2073478) also skewered the Times for their mis-analysis. Whether the cause was bias or something else, they sure mis-represented the results of their own poll. ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-neil-rogers-be-kicked-off-the-air/135984/5 "2002-11-09T06:59:39Z")
If you’re interested, here is a taste of the “humor” being discussed. Just to get some perspective. > **[Newsmax.com - Breaking news from around the globe](https://www.newsmax.com?a=2002%2F10%2F23%2F161702)** > > Newsmax.com reports today’s news headlines, live news stream, news videos from Americans and global readers > seeking the latest in current events, politics, U.S., world news, health, finance, and more. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-neil-rogers-be-kicked-off-the-air/135984/6 "2002-11-09T07:18:26Z")
No dec. As usual, you can’t stay on topic (not that this entire excursion is on topic). Here’s Rush: [http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site\_110402/content/stack\_b.guest.html](http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_110402/content/stack_b.guest.html) Here’s the story he couldn’t find… buried on the Front Page of the Times: > **[Control of House Expected to Stay in Hands of G.O.P. (Published 2002)](https://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/04/politics/campaigns/control-of-house-expected-to-stay-in-hands-of-gop.html)** > > Republicans are poised to make slim gains in the House, but Democrats could make gains with a superior effort to get supporters to the polls. —I cannot recall ever having heard Limbaugh say anything remotely this raw.— “I cannot recall” is an interesting choice of words, considering… People often have trouble recalling certain things… ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-neil-rogers-be-kicked-off-the-air/135984/7 "2002-11-09T07:28:54Z")
The bottom line is this, dec. Either people will be turned off by crap, or they will tune into it. No one is going to kick anyone off the air, though they are welcome and encouraged to condemn those that make evil statements like this. ---
**Author:** ![zigaretten](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/91b2a8/32.png) [@zigaretten](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zigaretten)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-neil-rogers-be-kicked-off-the-air/135984/8 "2002-11-09T07:47:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > \*\* > … People often have trouble recalling certain things… \*\* Which is why I am breathlessly awaiting a cite showing Rush engaging in the sort of racist behavior which you claim is his “stock in trade.” Not that I don’t trust your no doubt excellent memory. But I’m from Missouri… ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-neil-rogers-be-kicked-off-the-air/135984/9 "2002-11-09T08:37:36Z")
I shouldn’t have left an implication in there about anything having to do with racist behavior in particular. Adn indeed, I have to agree, reading dec’s wording again, that Rush is never this crude or raw. But his characterizations of various groups, from feminists, lesbians, environmentalists, democrats, etc are just as unfair and nasty. I don’t think we need a Rush quotefest concerning homosexuals, Barney Frank prancing around in the flag, etc. They’re exactly the same character of attack: a person can’t possibly be sincerely X, because that’s just crazy: it must be because (insert nasty epithet here based on their sexuality, looks, etc.). It’s all about playing psychologist to your enemies, enumertating all the nasty stereotypes you think they represent. M. Dowd does this too. This song is the same sort of thing: Rice can’t actually be a smart attractive black woman who is also a Republican: it must be because she’s a servile turncoat on her supposed “race” (defined by the political views people of her “race” are supposed to hold if they want to properly qualify). I’m not defending, or even trying to draw an exact moral equivalence on racist remarks. But demonizing your enemy is always vile. But people are allowed to be vile in this country, and hte listeners, not the spin of outrage trying ot shut people down, is what decides who is listened to. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-neil-rogers-be-kicked-off-the-air/135984/10 "2002-11-09T12:43:17Z")
**tomndebb** - Where did the Howard Stern reference come from? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-neil-rogers-be-kicked-off-the-air/135984/11 "2002-11-09T12:44:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* But people are allowed to be vile in this country, and the listeners, not the spin of outrage trying ot shut people down, is what decides who is listened to. **Apos** , I definitely agree that Neil Rogers’s humor should not be legally censored. However some material is so disgusing that a radio station ought to take action. In other words, if enough people are upset, it could be bad business for the station to be associated with this shock-jock. I think most of us would agree that some things are just beyond the pale. Is this parody bad enough that the station ought to terminate the show? On reflection, perhaps not. Still, something ought to be done. Many observers believe there is an anti-intellectual strain in some black culture. E.g., [see](http://www.africana.com/DailyArticles/index_20010110.htm) [and](http://www.eddigest.com/html/2_01%20Book%20review.html) The song seems to perpetrate this sort of thing. When Rice and Bush addresssed foreign policy during the campaign, she was the expert. It was she who explained some of Bush’s simple-minded comments. She was training him in foreign affairs. So, anti-intellectuals may drag her down _because of_ her glaringly high intelligence and intellectual accomplishments. ISTM that demonstrations and publicity campaigns, demonstrations, etc. are sometimes used as weapons against offensive media stuff. I think the left is more skilled at organizing such campaigns. If Neil Rogers made the same comments about an analogous black Democrat (Is there one?), there would be an organized campaign to punish him (and rightfully so.) But, a black Republican doesn’t get the same protection. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-neil-rogers-be-kicked-off-the-air/135984/12 "2002-11-09T15:54:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Where did the Howard Stern reference come from? **december** quoted CORE’s Innis claiming that no conservative would be allowed to get away with the same thing. By any standard that I use, Stern’s politics fall more on the Right than the Left, with a single blip in regards to abortion, yet he is not being hounded off the airwaves for skits that are every bit as outrageous as those of Rogers. (Of course, Stern gets left out of these discussions because he is a “shock jock,” but I see no reason for him to be excluded. Would Rush be pilloried if he resorted to Rogers’s tactics. Sure. Would he be cancelled? No.) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-neil-rogers-be-kicked-off-the-air/135984/13 "2002-11-09T15:57:01Z")
(Of course, Stern is more likely to mock Jesse Jackson than Condee Rice, so maybe that makes his humor OK?) ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2002, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-neil-rogers-be-kicked-off-the-air/135984/14 "2002-11-09T16:52:22Z")
Apos, in the future, always put a quote from whatever article you’re quoting, so we know what you’re talking about, because sometimes the articles don’t remain posted on the website, or sometimes the source requires registration to read. 🙂 Or both. Like many online newspapers, the Times puts its articles in the “pay to read” archive after a number of days, so folks who come into the thread late might not be able to read it. Anyway. What Rush actually said. > [@](#): > > Clymer Election Exam Doesn’t Make Times > > November 4, 2002 > > The New York Times has an interesting story dated November 3rd, citing a generic poll that comes out in favor of the GOP, by 51% - 49%. Our old pal Adam Clymer wrote the piece, which is full of good news for Republicans. > > Clymer’s examination of the election shows that Republicans are going to gain in the House, with the Senate still up for grabs…The thing that’s really interesting is that you can’t find this story in the Times. I found it in the Montpelier Times-Argus in Vermont. It’s an Adam Clymer story, but it’s not in the Times. It’s so good for the Republicans, they must have left it out of the paper, but it went out on the New York Times wire service. The Times article. > [@](#): > > Control of House Expected to Stay in Hands of G.O.P. > By ADAM CLYMER > > WASHINGTON, Nov. 3 — Republicans are poised to buck history and make slim gains in the House of Representatives on Tuesday, according to analyses by campaign officials of both parties, the latest polls and reports from political experts around the country. > Race-by-race examinations of competitive districts indicate that Republicans are more likely to increase their total of 223, in a House of 435 members, than to suffer a net loss, much less lose the majority. > > Parties holding the White House almost always lose House seats in off-year elections as weaker candidates who rode in on a president’s coattails lose when running on their own. Democrats did gain in 1934 and 1998. But never have Republicans gained strength in the House in a midterm election while holding the White House. The New York _Times_, like many newspapers, has both an on-line version and a print version, so Rush’s “conspiracy” is just that the story didn’t make it into the print version. That’s all. I subscribe to the print version of the Chicago _Tribune_ and there are frequently stories on their website that don’t appear in the paper I’m sitting here reading. If there really was a media conspiracy to keep Clymer’s article out of the news, why would the Times put it out over the news wire and feature it on their website? Rush frequently doesn’t stop and think these things through.