# Should Non-Citzens be allows to vote? One USA state ( California ) says YES. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 23, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-citzens-be-allows-to-vote-one-usa-state-california-says-yes/818432 "2018-07-23T14:26:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-citzens-be-allows-to-vote-one-usa-state-california-says-yes/818432/1 "2018-07-23T14:26:08Z")
California is now allowing this.Who is for this, and who is against this among the board? > **[Home](https://www.independentsentinel.com)** > > Est. reading time: 4 minutes ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-citzens-be-allows-to-vote-one-usa-state-california-says-yes/818432/2 "2018-07-23T14:32:49Z")
That editorial is from 3 years ago. Is there evidence that this modification caused non-citizens to actually vote? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-citzens-be-allows-to-vote-one-usa-state-california-says-yes/818432/3 "2018-07-23T14:32:59Z")
Automatically registering eligible voters now allows ineligible voters? Cited and logic required. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-citzens-be-allows-to-vote-one-usa-state-california-says-yes/818432/4 "2018-07-23T14:36:43Z")
Snopes says [not true.](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/california-motor-voter-act/) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-citzens-be-allows-to-vote-one-usa-state-california-says-yes/818432/5 "2018-07-23T14:43:39Z")
Hmmm. A thread started as if it was based on current events, using as its basis a link to a story that is three years old. Not good form. However, as the topic is worthy of consideration, I will let the thread proceed. It would be good for any excitable participant, on either side, to peruse the following: > **[Non-citizen suffrage in the United States](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_foreigners_to_vote_in_the_United_States)** > > The right of non-citizens to vote in the United States has historically been a contentious issue. Since 1997, the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 has prohibited non-citizens from voting in federal elections, with the threat of fines, imprisonment, inadmissibility and deportation. Exempt from punishment is any noncitizen who, at the time of voting, had two natural or adoptive U.S. citizen parents, who began permanently living in the United State Jamie Raskin, ... ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_lining](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Silver\_lining](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_lining)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-citzens-be-allows-to-vote-one-usa-state-california-says-yes/818432/6 "2018-07-23T14:43:54Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That editorial is from 3 years ago. Is there evidence that this modification caused non-citizens to actually vote? My bad, a 2018 link [https://www.redding.com/story/opinion/columnists/2018/03/05/non-citizens-start-voting-california/3](https://www.redding.com/story/opinion/columnists/2018/03/05/non-citizens-start-voting-california/3) A July 18, 2018 story that says San Fran now allows non-citizens to vote in school board elections. > **[San Francisco allows non-citizens to vote in school elections](https://nypost.com/2018/07/18/san-francisco-allows-non-citizens-to-vote-in-school-elections/)** > > San Francisco has started registering undocumented immigrants and other non-citizens to vote in the city’s school board elections, according to reports. The move has also been approved in Chi… ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-citzens-be-allows-to-vote-one-usa-state-california-says-yes/818432/7 "2018-07-23T14:47:43Z")
And local elections, such as those for school boards, may be regarded rather differently than state and national elections where in the case of federal offices they have been outlawed since 1996. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-citzens-be-allows-to-vote-one-usa-state-california-says-yes/818432/8 "2018-07-23T14:50:48Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > My bad, a 2018 link > > [https://www.redding.com/story/opinion/columnists/2018/03/05/non-citizens-start-voting-california/3](https://www.redding.com/story/opinion/columnists/2018/03/05/non-citizens-start-voting-california/3) This link is not working…although the fact that it contains the words “opinion” and “columnists” gives us a clue that it isn’t an actual news article. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-citzens-be-allows-to-vote-one-usa-state-california-says-yes/818432/9 "2018-07-23T14:56:13Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > A July 18, 2018 story that says San Fran now allows non-citizens to vote in school board elections. > > [San Francisco allowing undocumented immigrants to vote](https://nypost.com/2018/07/18/san-francisco-allows-non-citizens-to-vote-in-school-elections/) Which has absolutely nothing to do with the bill the California Governor signed 3 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-citzens-be-allows-to-vote-one-usa-state-california-says-yes/818432/10 "2018-07-23T15:06:47Z")
> [@Silver\_lining](#): > > California is now allowing this.Who is for this, and who is against this among the board? > > [Home - www.independentsentinel.com](http://www.independentsentinel.com/non-citizens-will-now-vote-in-at-least-one-state/) Again I ask you: Is there evidence that this modification caused non-citizens to actually vote? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-citzens-be-allows-to-vote-one-usa-state-california-says-yes/818432/11 "2018-07-23T15:09:35Z")
Since the mods are have kept this open, I’ll take the bait and state a position: There is nothing inherently wrong in extending the power to vote based on residency and not on citizenship. In fact, there’s a lot to be said for allowing the people who live in a place to have a voice in the people and policies that govern them, regardless of their status as citizens. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-citzens-be-allows-to-vote-one-usa-state-california-says-yes/818432/12 "2018-07-23T15:10:32Z")
I did hear something about some place allowing non-citizens to maybe vote in local school board elections recently. Let’s assume it’s the case that some city in the US will allow legal non-citizen residents to vote in local school board elections. The question is, are you for or against this practice? I’m for this. Local non-citizen residents, at least in my neighborhood, pay lots of real estate taxes, and that is used to pay for the school system. Further, they have children in the school, so they have a real interest in how the schools are managed, what is funded, etc. Finally, there is little chance of our government being adversely affected by this practice, since any effects of this vote will necessarily be extremely local (as opposed to federal or state elections, for example). RS ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-citzens-be-allows-to-vote-one-usa-state-california-says-yes/818432/13 "2018-07-23T15:14:33Z")
Let us not forget that in the very few school districts that allow this, you must have a child currently in that public school system to get to vote. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-citzens-be-allows-to-vote-one-usa-state-california-says-yes/818432/14 "2018-07-23T15:20:31Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I’m for this. Local non-citizen residents, at least in my neighborhood, pay lots of real estate taxes, and that is used to pay for the school system… Yes, I agree with this. I am in this situation (long-term resident, not yet a citizen). I think qualification for voting on on local administrative matters should be based on resident/taxpayer status - obviously with a stipulation that I’m here legally, and perhaps for some minimum time. Of course, I don’t think I should be allowed to vote on broader political issues at the state and federal level unless I take up citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-citzens-be-allows-to-vote-one-usa-state-california-says-yes/818432/15 "2018-07-23T15:29:48Z")
Several EU countries allow non-citizen EU-nationals to vote at the lower levels. Others allow EU-nationals to run, again at the lower levels. Navarre had originally proposed doing this within Spain itself: one vote at the national level (corresponding to your permanent address) but if you’re a long-term resident someplace else (for example college students) it’s understood that you have an interest in the local politics of two places. I’m perfectly fine with it so long as it’s done in a way that doesn’t lead to someone having two votes in the same election. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-citzens-be-allows-to-vote-one-usa-state-california-says-yes/818432/16 "2018-07-23T15:36:53Z")
I think I had a chance to vote in the London mayoral elections in 2000. I wasn’t sure, and I did not try to register or vote, but it did make an impression on me. For local offices, I can see that allowing non-citizens but lawful residents to vote on such matters would not result in the end of the world or the elimination of peace and freedom in liberal democracies. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-citzens-be-allows-to-vote-one-usa-state-california-says-yes/818432/17 "2018-07-23T15:41:57Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I think I had a chance to vote in the London mayoral elections in 2000. I wasn’t sure, and I did not try to register or vote, but it did make an impression on me. For local offices, I can see that allowing non-citizens but lawful residents to vote on such matters would not result in the end of the world or the elimination of peace and freedom in liberal democracies. What’s your citizenship? If you were a Commonwealth citizen, then yes. Otherwise you need indefinite leave to remain or have some other right to remain in the UK… ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-citzens-be-allows-to-vote-one-usa-state-california-says-yes/818432/18 "2018-07-23T15:43:52Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > For local offices, I can see that allowing non-citizens but lawful residents to vote on such matters would not result in the end of the world or the elimination of peace and freedom in liberal democracies. Yes - to the contrary, it would reduce tyranny. And local _petty_ tyrants are the worst. > **[No taxation without representation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_taxation_without_representation)** > > "No taxation without representation" (often shortened to "taxation without representation") is a political slogan that, though rooted in the Magna Carta, originated in its present form during the American Revolution and which expressed one of the primary grievances of the American colonists for Great Britain. In short, many colonists believed that as they were not represented in the distant British parliament, any taxes it imposed on the colonists (such as the Stamp Act and the Townshend Acts)... ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-citzens-be-allows-to-vote-one-usa-state-california-says-yes/818432/19 "2018-07-23T15:53:09Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > What’s your citizenship? If you were a Commonwealth citizen, then yes. Otherwise you need indefinite leave to remain or have some other right to remain in the UK… American. I was there on a temporary resident visa. Again, I did not try to register, I didn’t do any exploration of whether I could, but being told that non-citizens could vote in that election (even though I may not have been eligible) made me think differently about the knee-jerk reaction that only citizens may ever vote or the whole world turns to shit. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-citzens-be-allows-to-vote-one-usa-state-california-says-yes/818432/20 "2018-07-23T16:39:04Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Let us not forget that in the very few school districts that allow this, **you must have a child currently in that public school system** to get to vote. My bold - is that just for non-citizens? Because the school system affects a lot more than just the families with children in it. I can see limiting non-citizen school board votes to just enrolled families, however. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-citzens-be-allows-to-vote-one-usa-state-california-says-yes/818432.md?page=2)