# Should non-vaccinating parents be held liable for disease transmitted by their child? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 30, 2015, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-vaccinating-parents-be-held-liable-for-disease-transmitted-by-their-child/711297 "2015-01-30T01:57:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-vaccinating-parents-be-held-liable-for-disease-transmitted-by-their-child/711297/101 "2015-02-04T14:10:54Z")
Thankfully, a U.S. Senator recognizes the extreme hazard of the slippery slope when it comes to [government regulation](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/senator-restaurant-employees-wash-hands/story?id=28701837): _“In a question-and-answer session Monday at the Bipartisan Policy Center, Sen. Thom Tillis, R-North Carolina, argued that restaurants should be allowed to “opt out” of certain regulations - such as employees washing their hands. Such a rule, he says, is an example of how America is “one of the most regulated nations in the history of the planet.””_ Seriously, why should there be any regulations affecting how restaurants do business? Let them leave chicken out of the fridge overnight, the market will take care of it. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-vaccinating-parents-be-held-liable-for-disease-transmitted-by-their-child/711297/102 "2015-02-04T14:16:27Z")
The hilarious part of Tillis’ stance is that he still wants the handwashing regulation, he just wants additional regulations to allow restaurants to opt out while properly informing their customers of their non-washing protocol. As a response to over-regulation. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2015, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-vaccinating-parents-be-held-liable-for-disease-transmitted-by-their-child/711297/103 "2015-02-09T10:43:49Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Just to be clear, you describe anti-vaxxers complaining about anti vaxxers. > > You won’t get “an outbreak” among the vaccinated because they are vaccinated, and the failure rate is just not that high. > > I think the practical liability case is the immunocompromised child who gets a vaccine-preventable disease. That one is going to be pretty rare, but possible. Getting a preponderance of evidence is also possible if there is just one index antivaxxer kid. Once there is an antivaxxer outbreak, then it’s harder to pin down Measles Mary as the one whose transmission harmed the innocent. > > Still, I think maintaining liability is one way to help promote vaccination. Why do you have to be told this again and again? It wouldn’t be anti-vaxxers against anti-vaxxers, it would be children who cannot be vaccinated (or have been, but it didn’t take) against anti-vaxxers. Those kids aren’t all that rare, you know. The siblings of kids or parents with immunocompromised systems also cannot have the few vaccines that have the live virus in them, so it’s not even only sick kids we’re taking about. The parents who chose not to vaccinate for non-medical reasons would have no chance in court if they decided to sue other non-vaccinating parents, but the other parents would. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-vaccinating-parents-be-held-liable-for-disease-transmitted-by-their-child/711297/104 "2015-03-02T00:42:17Z")
Jimmy Kimmel gets help from some foul-mouthed actual doctors: [Jimmy Kimmel got doctors to swear at cameras to convince people to get vaccinated - Vox](http://www.vox.com/2015/3/1/8127377/jimmy-kimmel-vaccines-doctors) ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-vaccinating-parents-be-held-liable-for-disease-transmitted-by-their-child/711297/105 "2015-03-02T02:41:07Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Jimmy Kimmel gets help from some foul-mouthed actual doctors: [Jimmy Kimmel got doctors to swear at cameras to convince people to get vaccinated | Vox](http://www.vox.com/2015/3/1/8127377/jimmy-kimmel-vaccines-doctors) He makes a good point. If you refuse to vaccinate your kids, then don’t take them or yourself to a doctor. Because, why would you? You apparently know more than they do. I’m glad to see him doing this, and he’s not the only one. I’m seeing more and more public shaming and berating of anti-vaxers. If that’s what it takes, then so be it. Shame them. Make them pariahs. Sue them if it can be shown that they caused harm to another child. It sounds draconian and cruel but this ridiculous and dangerous trend has to be stopped. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-vaccinating-parents-be-held-liable-for-disease-transmitted-by-their-child/711297/106 "2015-03-10T03:05:03Z")
I was born in the 60s, and AFAIK, all of us from that era got vaccinated. I never heard of anyone getting complications, autism, etc. resulting from vaccination. I’m curious as to what the modern-day anti-vaxers’ response is to this. How did vaccines suddenly become something to fear? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-vaccinating-parents-be-held-liable-for-disease-transmitted-by-their-child/711297/107 "2015-03-10T04:57:16Z")
I think the only routine vaccinations done in the 60s were for smallpox and polio. IIRC there were no vaccines for measles, mumps, chicken pox, etc. yet. I suffered through all of them. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-vaccinating-parents-be-held-liable-for-disease-transmitted-by-their-child/711297/108 "2015-03-10T05:31:35Z")
I say we infect the parents with M, M and R just so they see what it’s like. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-vaccinating-parents-be-held-liable-for-disease-transmitted-by-their-child/711297/109 "2015-03-10T12:08:04Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I think the only routine vaccinations done in the 60s were for smallpox and polio. > > IIRC there were no vaccines for measles, mumps, chicken pox, etc. yet. I suffered through all of them. Measles vaccine was introduced in 1963; mumps and rubella vaccines a few years later (the combined MMR went into use in the early seventies). ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-vaccinating-parents-be-held-liable-for-disease-transmitted-by-their-child/711297/110 "2015-03-10T15:29:21Z")
Vaccines have been feared by a small but vocal contingent since the smallpox vaccine was introduced. Antivaxxers are not new, the internet has simply allowed them to network and amplify their voices. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-vaccinating-parents-be-held-liable-for-disease-transmitted-by-their-child/711297/111 "2015-03-10T17:17:53Z")
> [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > I think the practical liability case is the immunocompromised child who gets a vaccine-preventable disease. That one is going to be pretty rare, but possible. Or the kid who’s just too young to be vaccinated yet. That one will be far less rare. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2015, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-vaccinating-parents-be-held-liable-for-disease-transmitted-by-their-child/711297/112 "2015-03-10T23:46:42Z")
A few articles by Dorit Reiss Rubenstein professor of law at UC-Hastings who has written extensively about this legal issues surrounding vaccination over the past few years: [http://sites.uchastings.edu/lawandvaccines/](http://sites.uchastings.edu/lawandvaccines/) > **[Dorit Rubinstein Reiss articles on law, vaccines and other medical issues](https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/index-articles-guest-author-professor-dorit-rubinstein-reiss/)** > > Dorit Rubinstein Reiss, Professor of Law, is a frequent contributor to this blog, providing in-depth articles about vaccines, social policy and the law Mandates are legal as are many of the measures proposed in this thread. You’re not going to change the minds of the minority on this issue. The only thing you can really do is quarantine and institute punitive measures whenever possible. Nothing else really works. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-vaccinating-parents-be-held-liable-for-disease-transmitted-by-their-child/711297/113 "2015-03-11T18:25:54Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > How did vaccines suddenly become something to fear? Bob Dylan said it best, “The times, they are a-changing.” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-vaccinating-parents-be-held-liable-for-disease-transmitted-by-their-child/711297/114 "2015-03-11T22:45:13Z")
You know, I used to back chiropractic in general, that it was only the “woo” (“chiropractic can cure cancer!”) that were the bad guys, and that the “chiropractic is good for back pain, etc” group is fine. No longer. The California chiropractic association came out against vaccination. [https://www.calchiro.org/content/opp...lief-exemption](https://www.calchiro.org/content/opp...lief-exemption) [http://www.latimes.com/local/politic...305-story.html](http://www.latimes.com/local/politic...305-story.html) Now sure, what they are saying is that they arent against vaccination, they are just in favor of the completely bogus and overused nutcase “personal belief exemption”. But it works out to be the same thing. By being against SB277 they are pro-antivac nutjobs. No longer will I go to one. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2015, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-vaccinating-parents-be-held-liable-for-disease-transmitted-by-their-child/711297/115 "2015-03-11T23:08:58Z")
Many chiropractors are anti-vaccination, and there is a long tradition of such attitudes within chiropractic, endorsed by major chiropractic associations (sometimes with the pretense of supporting “choice”): > **[Chiropractic “pediatrics” firmly in the anti-vaccination camp](https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/chiropractic-pediatrics-firmly-in-the-anti-vaccination-camp/)** > > Who would you invite to speak at your conference if you wanted to show the world you are firmly in the anti-vaccination camp? Barbara Loe Fisher, head of the National Vaccine (Mis) Information Ce [http://www.tihcij.com/Articles/Anti-Vaccination-Attitudes-within-the-Chiropractic-Profession-Implications-for-Public-Health-Ethics.aspx?id=0000377](http://www.tihcij.com/Articles/Anti-Vaccination-Attitudes-within-the-Chiropractic-Profession-Implications-for-Public-Health-Ethics.aspx?id=0000377) ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2015, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-vaccinating-parents-be-held-liable-for-disease-transmitted-by-their-child/711297/116 "2015-03-14T19:26:40Z")
The part of this I still don’t get is how all these anti-vaxers can claim that vaccines are toxic, poisonous, etc. despite the fact that millions of people have gotten vaccinated with few or no ill effects. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-vaccinating-parents-be-held-liable-for-disease-transmitted-by-their-child/711297/117 "2015-03-14T20:09:41Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > The part of this I still don’t get is how all these anti-vaxers can claim that vaccines are toxic, poisonous, etc. despite the fact that millions of people have gotten vaccinated with few or no ill effects. Bwa-ha! You just _think_ there weren’t ill effects! What about all those allergies, asthma, food intolerance, irritable bowel syndrome, diabetes, various autoimmune diseases, cancers, obesity and like that there? The cause is obvious! It’s gotta be the vaccines!!! Sorry, just channeling there for a bit. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-vaccinating-parents-be-held-liable-for-disease-transmitted-by-their-child/711297/118 "2015-03-15T21:51:15Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Bwa-ha! You just _think_ there weren’t ill effects! What about all those allergies, asthma, food intolerance, irritable bowel syndrome, diabetes, various autoimmune diseases, cancers, obesity and like that there? The cause is obvious! It’s gotta be the vaccines!!! > > Sorry, just channeling there for a bit. I gotcha. Of course, back in the day when there were no vaccines and people suffered from all sorts of maladies, the cause was obvious. It had to be demons! Right? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-vaccinating-parents-be-held-liable-for-disease-transmitted-by-their-child/711297/119 "2015-03-15T23:54:07Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > Of course, back in the day when there were no vaccines and people suffered from all sorts of maladies, the cause was obvious. It had to be demons! > Right? Yes, and also [colon toxins](http://www.gentlewatershealing.com/colon-hydrotherapy/).\* \*actual colon _demons_ existed too, but could usually be vanquished by eating spicy Mexican food. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-vaccinating-parents-be-held-liable-for-disease-transmitted-by-their-child/711297/120 "2015-03-16T01:40:34Z")
I certainly accept that the medical community knows what they’re doing. But just in case a parent had reservations about three vaccines given all at once, is there an alternative to an MMR so you can get one at a time over a few weeks? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-vaccinating-parents-be-held-liable-for-disease-transmitted-by-their-child/711297.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-non-vaccinating-parents-be-held-liable-for-disease-transmitted-by-their-child/711297.md?page=7)