# Should Obama salute military people? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 11, 2009, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362 "2009-02-11T14:26:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/21 "2009-02-11T16:00:04Z")
It is curious how often this comes up. I enjoy US AM talk radio, but rarely have a chance to listen to it. I do remember someone calling (let’s say Rush) to say how upset he was the Clinton who never served in the military returned the salute of a Marine someplace. Fast forward a few years and I heard a caller saying how proud he felt when Bush returned the salute of a Marine someplace. For me, as an old soldier, returning a salute is the most automatic, natural thing in the world. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/22 "2009-02-11T16:17:52Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Personally, I think that if George Washington didn’t think there was any need to return a salute, then there’s no need for any other CIC to do it. It was a lame thing for Reagan to start (especially since he spent his own “military service” making VD training films on a Hollywood backlot), but now it’s just become accepted as normal protocol. I doubt anyone’s going to end it. [/QUOTE] George Washington felt the need to keep slaves…should we continue that practice too because he felt it was appropriate? I think this is a minor matter to quibble about. Myself, I’m going to leave it up to Obama…whatever HE thinks is appropriate is pretty much good enough for me wrt saluting the troops. -XT ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/23 "2009-02-11T16:18:16Z")
> [@brownie55](#): > > If we get him one of those Banana Republic Generalissimo outfits, then hell yeah, he should snap away. Like the Army version Bush modeled at the “Thanksgiving in Baghdad” photo op, or the Navy flightsuit version from “Mission Accomplished”? I thought those had been ridiculed sufficiently never to appear again. There’s a version he only wore on Air Force One, more of a robe really, that was shown on the NatGeo special about the airplane. Yes, I do recall the outrage from the Ditto Set about the “draft dodger” Clinton presuming to salute our honorable military personnel, and perhaps having to be coached how. BTW, Clinton and Obama are both lefties. Does handedness influence the “crispness” of a salute? ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/24 "2009-02-11T16:21:52Z")
I never noticed that US presidents did salute. It sounds like a strange thing to do, since they’re explicitly not part of the military. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/25 "2009-02-11T16:22:00Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > Where did you get that?!?!? > > The only civilian that we salute in the President. That gets debated periodically, but most don’t have heart ache with that. > > I’ve seen SecDef greeted by military officers, and I’ve not seen then salute even him. I’ve seen both Gates and Rumsfeld saluted,and both men return the salute: [example](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.defendamerica.mil/images/photos/apr2003/essays/pi043003a1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.defendamerica.mil/photoessays/apr2003/p043003a1.html&usg=__2AIkleiy4RuqWNa4nlFTw-m4gBw=&h=342&w=500&sz=36&hl=en&start=19&um=1&tbnid=1VVwVAScg5kjBM:&tbnh=89&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522secretary%2Bof%2Bdefense%2522%2Bsalute%26start%3D18%26ndsp%3D18%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN) [other exmaple](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0cqHe5g9sy8ak/610x.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.daylife.com/photo/0cqHe5g9sy8ak&usg=__QKA_3rUYgO2IykIFdG73IeDfCvs=&h=437&w=610&sz=75&hl=en&start=59&um=1&tbnid=jPpqWyI4iOtNYM:&tbnh=97&tbnw=136&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522secretary%2Bof%2Bdefense%2522%2Bsalute%26start%3D54%26ndsp%3D18%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN) ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/26 "2009-02-11T16:30:33Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Clinton saluted. He got criticized by the right for doing it too. It’s a no win situation for any Democrat because either choice is spun as contempt for the military by the right. A very astute observation, although I think it’s phrased too narrowly. What the right spins as contempt for the military is being a Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/27 "2009-02-11T16:43:23Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I’ve seen both Gates and Rumsfeld saluted,and both men return the salute: I stand corrected. While the Gates salute is in a ceremony, which I really don’t count (in those things, your mother could be saluted), I’m surprised at the Rumsfeld salute. As a military aid to a very senior navy civilian, I’ve seen him travel with SecDef frequently, and I’ve not seen either saluted. I’ll amend. NORMALLY, the only civilian to get saluted is the President. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/28 "2009-02-11T18:06:18Z")
I seem to recall that the criticism Clinton got was for a sloppy and casual salute - he tightened it up over the years. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/29 "2009-02-11T18:12:01Z")
No, it was for saluting at all. I remember it clearly. They also critiqued his execution, but that was an additional attack, not the central one. I remember Limbaugh saying it was ok for Reagan and Bush I to have returned salutes because they’d been in the military, but that Clinton had no right because he was a civilian. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/30 "2009-02-11T22:26:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, it was for saluting at all. I remember it clearly. They also critiqued his execution, but that was an additional attack, not the central one. I remember Limbaugh saying it was ok for Reagan and Bush I to have returned salutes because they’d been in the military, but that Clinton had no right because he was a civilian. There were also [rumors](http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/salute.asp), debunked by Snopes, that the military was declining to salute Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/31 "2009-02-11T22:42:48Z")
How do you acknowledge, as a civilian, a military salute? Handshake/hugg/kiss/bow/nod would not do if saluting a large number of soldiers. Maybe he could shake hands with the top guy. Of course, a military salute kid of feels like a non-Catholic saluting the Pope by kissing his ring. I’m sure there are rules for that. That’s what your chief protocol-guy gets paid for. Ask him. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/32 "2009-02-11T22:50:18Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > How do you acknowledge, as a civilian, a military salute? Handshake/hugg/kiss/bow/nod would not do if saluting a large number of soldiers. Maybe he could shake hands with the top guy. Rank isn’t important. The President is forever getting off and on planes and every time there’s at least one military man to salute or not. I say stop, but like the sensible Dopers above, I ralize this is hardly worth his consideration right now. Too much important stuff is going on right now. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2009, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/33 "2009-02-11T22:57:04Z")
I think it comes down to the personal idiosyncrasies of each President. Each of them has to decide what they feel is most appropriate for them. I’m perfectly happy letting Obama decide whatever he thinks is best on this subject. When some of you 'dopers who are opposed are elected to the President I’ll be happy to leave that decision in your hands as well. 😉 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/34 "2009-02-12T00:24:26Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > And let’s be clear about what a returned salute means - it is an acknowledgment of respect given and a return of it. These are politicians we’re talking about. It likely has as much to do with public perception than it does about respect. Beyond that, i’d argue there’s a case to be made that the saluting of a President is a sign of respect for the office, not the person who happens to occupy it, and that even talking about the differences between Presidents and criticism thereof suggests we tend to think it’s the person saluting back - which to me seems rather a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/35 "2009-02-12T00:59:16Z")
Can’t this just be left to the discretion of the President? Does everything have to be analyzed? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/36 "2009-02-12T01:34:40Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Can’t this just be left to the discretion of the President? Does everything have to be analyzed? Probably. Still, I like the way US code deals with the President on _flag_ related issues: > [@](#): > > [TITLE 4 \> CHAPTER 1 \> § 10](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode04/usc_sec_04_00000010----000-.html) > > § 10. Modification of rules and customs by President > > Any rule or custom pertaining to the display of the flag of the United States of America, set forth herein, may be altered, modified, or repealed, or additional rules with respect thereto may be prescribed, by the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States, whenever he deems it to be appropriate or desirable; and any such alteration or additional rule shall be set forth in a proclamation. It’s nice to know that Obama doesn’t have to wear one of those flag pins, if he doesn’t want to. ---
**Author:** ![nameless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/779978/32.png) [@nameless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nameless)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/37 "2009-02-12T02:23:11Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > How do you acknowledge, as a civilian, a military salute? I think we all know the answer to this. Terrorist fist jab. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/38 "2009-02-12T02:31:43Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Beyond that, i’d argue there’s a case to be made that the saluting of a President is a sign of respect for the office, not the person who happens to occupy it, and that even talking about the differences between Presidents and criticism thereof suggests we tend to think it’s the person saluting back - which to me seems rather a mistake. That’s true regardless of whether the president is involved in the salute though - do you think enlisted personnel respect personally all the officers they salute? Or the officers all of the enlisted personnel or junior officers whose salutes they return? At all times it is a mark of institutional respect, and as such it has its place. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/39 "2009-02-12T04:38:43Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > How do you acknowledge, as a civilian, a military salute? Handshake/hugg/kiss/bow/nod would not do if saluting a large number of soldiers. Maybe he could shake hands with the top guy. In my salad days, the correct response for someone higher ranking but out of uniform would be to straighten up, look the saluter in the eye and end the exchange by smartly looking away. Probably too subtle. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/40 "2009-02-12T18:56:03Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > That’s true regardless of whether the president is involved in the salute though - do you think enlisted personnel respect personally all the officers they salute? Or the officers all of the enlisted personnel or junior officers whose salutes they return? > > At all times it is a mark of institutional respect, and as such it has its place. Yes, but my point is that while in those cases, there are regulations covering the actions of both parties to the saluting, only one party must adhere to them when it comes to a service member and the President. In the former cases, it is a mark of institutional respect, and so is handled institutionally. In the latter, it is likewise the case of respect for not the man but the Commander in Chief, yet the decision lies with the man and not with the office. It’s not the rules which decide how the President responds, but the guy standing there in a suit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362.md?page=3)