# Should Obama salute military people? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 11, 2009, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362 "2009-02-11T14:26:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/61 "2013-01-28T14:49:06Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > In this case, the president was returning a salute on a foreign naval vessel. Would he have done the same when boarding a ship of the U.S. Navy? Yes, I think so. Some would, at least; ISTR FDR would doff his hat when boarding a U.S. warship. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/62 "2013-01-28T15:55:33Z")
It’s a tricky situation. While the POTUS is the CINC, he is a civilian who is not actually in the military. In addition, he’s not in uniform. Nevertheless, he’s going to look like a jerk if he doesn’t acknowledge salutes in some manner, and the tradition seems to have stuck that he return the salute. IMHO, this is ridiculous, because again, the POTUS is not in the military and is not in uniform. For example, U.S. Navy regulations state that when an officer is saluted and they are either in civilian clothes, or in uniform but uncovered (i.e. no hat), or their hands are occupied, the salute should be acknowledged with eye contact, a nod, and a greeting, but the salute is not returned. Other services (such as the U.S. Army and Air Force), do salute when indoors and uncovered, so Navy personnel are advised to do the same when in mixed company to avoid looking “ill-mannered or disrespectful.” However, Navy personnel do not generally salute when out of uniform or indoors and uncovered. In short, then, I believe that the POTUS should acknowledge salutes with a nod and a greeting, but not being in the military or in uniform, should NOT actually themselves salute. However, at this point, it’s probably going to take another ex-military POTUS (like Eisenhower) to reverse this practice. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/63 "2013-01-28T16:02:59Z")
Frankly, if you are in our military and the President Of The United States salutes you, and you are actually _offended_ by this, you are the one with the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/64 "2013-01-28T16:11:39Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Other services (such as the U.S. Army and Air Force), do salute when indoors and uncovered, so Navy personnel are advised to do the same when in mixed company to avoid looking “ill-mannered or disrespectful.” However, Navy personnel do not generally salute when out of uniform or indoors and uncovered. Er… Soldiers do not generally salute indoors, except in limited circumstances, such as reporting to an officer or when under arms, as a guard. US Army Field Manual 7-21-13(4) clearly states: > [@](#): > > 4-14. Salutes are not required when: > > - Indoors, unless reporting to an officer or when on duty as a guard. > - A prisoner. > - Saluting is obviously inappropriate. In any case not covered by specific instructions, render the salute. > - Either the senior or the subordinate is wearing civilian clothes. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/65 "2013-01-28T17:07:45Z")
I stand by my post of four years ago - if the Prez wants to return a salute, let him. If he doesn’t want to, shaddap about it. It should be 100% no question at his discretion and if you want to criticize him for saluting or not saluting, you should get a life, and if you listen to opposing politicians who clearly are kicking up a fuss just so they can criticize the Prez, you should get a new brain because your current one is obviously not working. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/66 "2013-01-28T17:40:37Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I stand by my post of four years ago - if the Prez wants to return a salute, let him. If he doesn’t want to, shaddap about it. It should be 100% no question at his discretion and if you want to criticize him for saluting or not saluting, you should get a life, and if you listen to opposing politicians who clearly are kicking up a fuss just so they can criticize the Prez, you should get a new brain because your current one is obviously not working. No. And I’m a Democrat and Obama supporter, so it’s not about that. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/67 "2013-01-28T18:13:57Z")
I don’t care what it’s about. The mere act of raising your right hand and touching your forehead with it is not the exclusive purview of the military. If an organization (or a cult, for that matter) wanted to encourage it or similar among its membership, I fail to see the problem for them or for the President of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/68 "2013-01-28T18:16:42Z")
If officers don’t salute in civilian clothing I don’t see why the POTUS would. On the other hand, I don’t see why anyone should care if he does. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/69 "2013-01-28T18:19:24Z")
I think if you’re commander in chief, you have plenty of more significant things to worry about than returning salutes. It should be up to him whether he does nothing, returns a salute, blows a kiss, flips the bird, or cocks his leg and farts. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/70 "2013-01-28T18:29:04Z")
Even older thread on this issue: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-345373.html](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/archive/index.php/t-345373.html) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/71 "2013-01-28T18:38:05Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > cocks his leg and farts. Ah, the LBJ salute… ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/72 "2013-01-28T18:38:33Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I don’t care what it’s about. The mere act of raising your right hand and touching your forehead with it is not the exclusive purview of the military. If an organization (or a cult, for that matter) wanted to encourage it or similar among its membership, I fail to see the problem for them or for the President of the United States. To me, it implies that the president is a member of the military, despite the clear intention of the Constitution to have a civilian command it. Should he wear a uniform and goose step around too? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/73 "2013-01-28T18:50:34Z")
I don’t see what laws he’d be violating if he did, and I don’t see the implication that a salute makes someone a member of the military. Being able to zip commies…_that’s_ what makes someone a member of the military. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/74 "2013-01-28T19:02:44Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I don’t see what laws he’d be violating if he did, and I don’t see the implication that a salute makes someone a member of the military. Didn’t say that. I just don’t like the militarization of a civilian office, that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/75 "2013-01-28T19:11:22Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Er… Soldiers do not generally salute indoors, except in limited circumstances, such as reporting to an officer or when under arms, as a guard. My point was simply that there \*are \* circumstances in which Army personnel do indeed salute indoors, even if uncovered. In contrast, Navy personnel do not do this. The only circumstances in which Navy personnel salute indoors is: (1) when covered and under arms, or (2) when in mixed company with other services when they salute, and when the failure to salute might lead to misunderstanding or embarrassment. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/76 "2013-01-28T19:47:10Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Didn’t say that. I just don’t like the militarization of a civilian office, that’s all. Saluting doesn’t do this, though, unless it’s your contention that _only_ the military can (or should) salute, which will come as a surprise to civilians who put their hands over their hearts or remove their hats or tip their caps or whatever, as circumstances prompt them. Is standing for the national anthem a “salute” ? So, is raising your right hand and touching your forehead under military copyright, or are civilians allowed to do it, too? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/77 "2013-01-28T19:51:55Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Saluting doesn’t do this, though, unless it’s your contention that _only_ the military can (or should) salute, which will come as a surprise to civilians who put their hands over their hearts or remove their hats or tip their caps or whatever, as circumstances prompt them. Is standing for the national anthem a “salute” ? No, a salute is a salute, and saluting the military is a military salute. > [@](#): > > So, is raising your right hand and touching your forehead under military copyright, or are civilians allowed to do it, too? Again, do you think the president should wear a uniform? Or march around? Certain things are appropriate, others are not. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/78 "2013-01-28T19:53:14Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > To me, it implies that the president is a member of the military, despite the clear intention of the Constitution to have a civilian command it. Should he wear a uniform and goose step around too? That post would have a point if, in fact, the US military did happen to march using the so-called goose-step. As the US military doesn’t use that particular style of marching, your post is pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/79 "2013-01-28T19:55:58Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Didn’t say that. I just don’t like the militarization of a civilian office, that’s all. Actually, you did. You specifically said that to you, the President rendering a salute implies he’s a member of the military. And just for fun, check the Constitution. He’s the Commander-in-Chief of the military. He just doesn’t happen to be a uniformed member. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362/80 "2013-01-28T20:02:21Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Actually, you did. You specifically said that to you, the President rendering a salute implies he’s a member of the military. Ah. I meant it implies he is, yet he isn’t. It’s an incongruity. > [@](#): > > And just for fun, check the Constitution. He’s the Commander-in-Chief of the military. He just doesn’t happen to be a uniformed member. Yes, he is, but he’s still a civilian. He is NOT a member of the military by any definition. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-obama-salute-military-people/485362.md?page=5)