I have no problem with it, though I bet what would happen is his political opponents claiming he was mocking the military rather than trying to become part of it.
It’s of no relevance that I can see, beyond a weak attempt at a slippery slope argument and if I may respond in kind - do you want to regulate all aspects of the president’s behaviour, 24 hours a day, the way he walks and talks and gestures and eats and drinks and uses the bathroom?
Well, in this case, I’m okay with his deciding that on his own. The salute itself is a mere ceremonial gesture, a vestigial remnant of raising one’s visor in order to be recognized, and it only has whatever significance we choose to give it.
I can’t decide if you really think this is relevant.
You know that “salute” has more meanings than making a gesture with the hand.
I would have a very big problem with it. Our president is supposed to be a civilian. Our constitution is designed to protect us from being ruled by the military.
Wow, talk about a slippery slope argument!
I don’t want to regulate anything. He decides whether to salute.
Like I said, some things are appropriate and some are not - you can’t get further from the slippery slope argument than that.
Well, in this case, I’m okay with his deciding that on his own. The salute itself is a mere ceremonial gesture, a vestigial remnant of raising one’s visor in order to be recognized, and it only has whatever significance we choose to give it.
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Hey, if a salute is a salute, and saluting the military is a military salute, CNN’s website where they “Salute to Troops” must mean CNN is military, right?
Do you know that making a gesture with the hand can have different meanings to different people in different contexts, even if it’s the same gesture?
The president putting on a uniform and marching around doesn’t mean you’re being ruled by the military.
If he’s about to declare martial law, though…
Well, okay then… my work here is done.
Heh, really? Just don’t use the wrong fork at dinner. That’s how wars start.
Yeah, Monty, a slight militarization is all it takes, then BAM! - fascism.
Or you could just say that when a military member in uniform salutes, it’s a military salute, and when a president salutes, it’s a presidential salute, and beyond that they have nothing in common.
No, it doesn’t. It no more “militarizes” (whatever that might mean) the office of the presidency than this act made that individual a member of a military ruling the US.
Very good question! What should happen when a well-meaning civilian, perhaps a bumpkin fresh off the turnip truck, sees a Marine in uniform, say at the airport, and out of a misguided sense of pure respect, salutes him? (Poorly.)
Is the civilian committing a civil offense, similar to the “stolen valor” law where it would be a crime for him to wear his grand-daddy’s campaign ribbons? Okay, obviously not. It’s clearly a “freedom of speech” thing. Maybe it isn’t appropriate, but is it really “wrong?”
What should the Marine do? He shouldn’t return the salute…but is it wrong for him to acknowledge it? Maybe he could lift his hand in a loose gesture emblematic or evocative of a salute? Or does he cold-shoulder the civvy, a classic cut direct? Is anything wrong with a smile and a nod?
This reminds me of the schedule of rules for displaying the flag. They’re “rules” but they aren’t “laws.” I don’t go to jail for leaving Old Glory out in the rain, or even dragging it in the mud. But I shouldn’t.
The problem is, in a free country, “Shouldn’t” doesn’t really have much meaning. We shouldn’t go name-calling in the SDMB BBQ Pit…but, boy howdy, we sure do!
My military experience is slim (4 years in the Navy high school – yeah, really), and while I agree with the general rule that civilians don’t salute, the CINC is a pretty special case (and the same rules could apply to SecDef and other saluted civilians).
IMHO, it makes sense to acknowledge a salute.
The fact that there isn’t a rule makes it a bit uncomfortable to the saluting military person, since they have to guess whether to hold for the acknowledgement or not. But in practice this is no different than low-levels saluting admirals, who can’t be bothered to return every salute as he walks the opposite way of hundreds of soldiers/seamen/airmen. I doubt the President usually returns a salute each time he boards AF1, for example – and the saluting person knows he’ll pass and then he can release.
But at a public affair, and when being saluted not just by one corpsman, but by the whole corps, it makes sense to make a clear acknowledgement. I agree with Reagan’s decision, and it shouldn’t matter one whit whether the Pres had served or not. The Pres is not being saluted because of what he was, but because of what he IS, and should reply in kind. However, it does behoove the Pres to know the protocol and get it reasonably right.
BTW, I don’t know how it is in other services, but in the Navy one doesn’t salute unless one is covered (wearing a cap). If that’s the case, Bush goofed in the link above (about Reagan). But I’d still forgive him: he’s the Pres, who never wears a military cap, and he can make the rules.
As I said, this happens all the time with higher officers – starting at say, Army Lieutenant Colonal, or Navy Commander. High enough that the majority have to salute you in passing, but your arm would wear out if you returned each one. Of course, the level where this starts to happen depends on the circumstances. It would be quite different in the Pentagon versus on a Navy destroyer.
I’ve been saluted by civilians when I’m in uniform. I’ll be cordial about it (I do my best to always be cordial to the public when in uniform - this one time I even helped an old lady carry her groceries) if the intent is well-meaning, but… no, I’m not going to snap a salute back at them. Maybe a salute-ish raising of my hand… more like a wave, really.
I expect a U.S. Marine would do the same, or at least I’ve never heard of a case where a marine went all psycho on some civilian for saluting him. If the civvy’s bein’ a jerk and/or is drunk, sure, give 'im the cold shoulder.
We shouldn’t name-call in the Pit? What the fucking fuck kinda fucked up shit is that?
That makes sense, and is a comfortable compromise.
Grin! My upbringing at my grandmother’s knee slipped through. Miss Manners would have loved her! You’re right, of course: there is a proper place for everything, including cussin’!
