# Should OK Sen. Tom Coburn give Stanley Thornton Jr. the apology he has requested? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 19, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ok-sen-tom-coburn-give-stanley-thornton-jr-the-apology-he-has-requested/600147 "2011-10-19T15:04:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ok-sen-tom-coburn-give-stanley-thornton-jr-the-apology-he-has-requested/600147/21 "2011-10-19T18:13:08Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Do all Senators have the power to diagnose by video, or is that skill limited to Republicans? :rolleyes: It was a reasonably conclusion for anyone who saw the show, and certainly worth investigating. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ok-sen-tom-coburn-give-stanley-thornton-jr-the-apology-he-has-requested/600147/22 "2011-10-19T18:21:09Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > The review was perfectly reasonable, and I’m curious as to what the disability he’s (apparently) had since age 16 actually is. I’m curious too, but I realize that this is a private matter between Mr. Thornton and the Social Security Agency, and it is absolutely none of my business. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ok-sen-tom-coburn-give-stanley-thornton-jr-the-apology-he-has-requested/600147/23 "2011-10-19T18:23:50Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > :rolleyes: It was a reasonably conclusion for anyone who saw the show, and certainly worth investigating. It was a joke reference to Bill Frist. Try to keep up. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ok-sen-tom-coburn-give-stanley-thornton-jr-the-apology-he-has-requested/600147/24 "2011-10-19T18:40:36Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Do all Senators have the power to diagnose by video, or is that skill limited to Republicans? Well, Coburn is an MD but I don’t think I’d want him to be my GP. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ok-sen-tom-coburn-give-stanley-thornton-jr-the-apology-he-has-requested/600147/25 "2011-10-19T18:46:31Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m not quite understanding this view. Do you think that members of Congress should not be able to question a government agency about whether a specific action by a specific private individual violated any law? Sure I do. I don’t think they should be able to _demand an investigation_ of whether a specific action by a specific private individual violated a law, at least without probable cause. It’s tantamount to a bill of attainder. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ok-sen-tom-coburn-give-stanley-thornton-jr-the-apology-he-has-requested/600147/26 "2011-10-19T19:06:57Z")
No apologies necessary. Mr Thornton chose to publicize the way he lives (I’m talking about his capabilities not his lifestyle). Senator Coburn saw this and had reasonable grounds to question whether Thornton was genuinely disabled. As both a private citizen and as an elected official, Coburn was justified in asking to have Thornton’s disability status reviewed. The review was made and Thornton’s status was upheld. That should be the end of it for both parties. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ok-sen-tom-coburn-give-stanley-thornton-jr-the-apology-he-has-requested/600147/27 "2011-10-19T19:08:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Sure I do. I don’t think they should be able to _demand an investigation_ of whether a specific action by a specific private individual violated a law, at least without probable cause. > > It’s tantamount to a bill of attainder. I don’t think you know what a bill of attainder is. So when Congress called Eric Prince to testify on the conduct of Blackwater private military contractors in Iraq, was that unfair? When members of Congress ask for an investigation of Clarence Thomas’ [ethics reports](http://www.louise.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2559:slaughter-19-colleagues-call-for-investigation-into-justice-thomass-non-disclosure&catid=95:2011-press-releases&Itemid=55), is that unfair? Again, if someone in Congress threatens to punish an agency if they don’t come up with their preferred outcome of an agency investigation, that’s wrong. But asking the agency to review something after credible evidence comes up that there might be waste, fraud, or abuse? That seems reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ok-sen-tom-coburn-give-stanley-thornton-jr-the-apology-he-has-requested/600147/28 "2011-10-19T19:09:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Sure I do. I don’t think they should be able to _demand an investigation_ of whether a specific action by a specific private individual violated a law, at least without probable cause. > > It’s tantamount to a bill of attainder. No a bill of attainder would be if Coburn had demanded Thornton’s social security payments be stopped based on what he had seen on TV. Coburn’s request that Thornton’s social security payments be investigated based on what he had seen on TV was reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ok-sen-tom-coburn-give-stanley-thornton-jr-the-apology-he-has-requested/600147/29 "2011-10-19T19:25:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No a bill of attainder would be if Coburn had demanded Thornton’s social security payments be stopped based on what he had seen on TV. Coburn’s request that Thornton’s social security payments be investigated based on what he had seen on TV was reasonable. I have to agree with this. If Thornton had not desired such scrutiny of his lifestyle, financial or otherwise, he should not have agreed to publicize it in the way that he did on TV. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ok-sen-tom-coburn-give-stanley-thornton-jr-the-apology-he-has-requested/600147/30 "2011-10-19T19:31:40Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > I have to agree with this. If Thornton had not desired such scrutiny of his lifestyle, financial or otherwise, he should not have agreed to publicize it in the way that he did on TV. Senator Coburn is a public figure too and I have called for him to be audited by the IRS, yet nothing happens. Oh right, I forgot, I’m not a senator. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ok-sen-tom-coburn-give-stanley-thornton-jr-the-apology-he-has-requested/600147/31 "2011-10-19T19:53:11Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I don’t think you know what a bill of attainder is. > > So when Congress called Eric Prince to testify on the conduct of Blackwater private military contractors in Iraq, was that unfair? When members of Congress ask for an investigation of Clarence Thomas’ [ethics reports](http://www.louise.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2559:slaughter-19-colleagues-call-for-investigation-into-justice-thomass-non-disclosure&catid=95:2011-press-releases&Itemid=55), is that unfair? I know exactly what a bill of attainder is. Do you? Was there probable cause to believe Blackwater employees had broken the law, based on the results of the DoD’s investigation? Was there probable cause to believe Thomas had failed to disclose financial interests, based on his own financial affidavits? We can agree that those are a little different than something the Senator caught on TV. Even if we can’t, Blackwater and Thomas are government contractors and a government employee, respectively, not private citizens. Perhaps I wasn’t clear. I am perfectly happy for Coburn to demand an investigation _of the adult baby guy’s benefits_ in his capacity as a private citizen. I am not happy for him to do it as a Senator. I am happy for him to demand an investigation of the Social Security Administration and its disability insurance programs _generally_ in either capacity. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ok-sen-tom-coburn-give-stanley-thornton-jr-the-apology-he-has-requested/600147/32 "2011-10-19T20:12:07Z")
We could argue endlessly about whether Coburn was wise to ask for a review - he probably wasn’t. But he had the right to ask for one - _especially_ since he is a senator. Monitoring the functioning of federal programs is pretty explicitly his job. It sucks for Mr. Thornton that he had his life interfered with by the federal government to a degree - but since his life was so intertwined with SSI that was inevitable. Ask anyone involved with SSI if you don’t believe that one - generally disability claims are routinely denied on the first application with the expectation that the truly disabled will reapply and see the process through. The program is a mess - it routinely pries into the private lives of recipients to determine whether they are eligible (even discriminating against married people as a matter of course), makes little effort to steer recipients into vocational retraining with the goal toward eventual reemployment and termination of SSI benefits, and costs far more than it should. [Fun reading.](http://www.guernicamag.com/features/3074/kovich_9_15_11/) What Mr. Thornton had to endure from Senator Coburn is small potatoes. I encourage everyone to read this article. > [@](#): > > Claire Hobart is in her forties and has advanced osteoarthritis in her left hip. Her doctor is a former colleague of mine, and, like Doug, she agreed to discuss her struggles with the disability system. She has a high school diploma and worked for years as a waitress and cashier. When she was in her early thirties her hip started aching and she had trouble standing for hours behind a cash register. Five years ago the pain got so bad that she stopped working and applied for disability. She was denied. She reapplied and was denied again. > > After five years of being unemployed, Claire is poor. When I spoke with her over a year ago, she shared a one-bedroom house in Seattle with her boyfriend, her seventeen-year-old son, her niece, her niece’s boyfriend, and a terrier named Little Feet. There was a full-sized mattress in the living room and the sofa was also made up as a bed. Rent was eight hundred dollars a month: Claire got 453 dollars a month from welfare and her boyfriend worked intermittently as a house painter. Her niece was out of work. Welfare entitled Claire to basic health benefits from the state, but once her son turned eighteen her welfare would disappear. > > In the SSI denial letters Claire received, she was told that she should be able to get a job that did not involve standing, and they suggested that she consider a secretarial job. Claire was skeptical that somebody with no secretarial experience, who could not type, could get that sort of job. Instead, her plan was to get approved for disability, qualify for Medicaid, then receive a hip replacement and regain some function, maybe even enough to return to work. So even after her many denials, Claire was not looking for work. She was applying again for SSI. > > The denial letters Claire received did not tell her, and she had no way of knowing, that she could qualify for job retraining with the federally financed, state-administered departments of vocational rehabilitation. DVRs offer career counseling to help the disabled find jobs that will accommodate them. They will arrange for vocational training courses and internships, and they offer financial assistance with college. If clients need appropriate clothes for a job interview, DVR can even give them one hundred dollars towards an outfit. > > Even with these resources and a dedicated staff, DVR results are not spectacular. Each of the thirteen counselors at the Seattle office carries a caseload of about 100 clients. They are expected to find a job, a position which the client must keep for at least ninety days, for twenty-five of the 100 within a year. The manager of the Seattle office estimated that only two or three of her counselors would be able to make the yearly goal. And many of the disabled who make it back into the work force still collect disability. I attended an orientation where many prospective clients were concerned about enrolling in the program because they didn’t want to lose their benefit checks. The presenter reassured them: “A lot of you may be receiving SSI, SSDI. It is not our intent to get you off that… You can often earn up to nine hundred dollars a month on top of SSI or SSDI.” In order to encourage the disabled to return to the workforce, they are allowed to earn income to supplement their benefit (the amount of income depends on the benefit amount). > > When I talked with Jen Bean, a benefits coordinator who helps DVR clients understand their various entitlements, she insisted that about one-third to one-half of the people she counsels eventually relinquish at least part of their benefits. But her objective, she explained passionately, is not to get people off of the disability rolls, but to help them out of poverty in any way she can. Her goal is worthy: poverty is closely linked with poor health, and the trivial size of disability benefits condemns the disabled to a life of poverty. It’s not clear that disability benefits improve the health of the disabled or their quality of life. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ok-sen-tom-coburn-give-stanley-thornton-jr-the-apology-he-has-requested/600147/33 "2011-10-19T20:24:13Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I don’t think it is the same. In one case, we have someone saying on TV that they build furniture and collect SSI benefits. In the other, we have people who are advocating for lower taxes. I don’t think stating one’s views on tax policy (unless it is perhaps something extreme, like in the case of people who say that there are secret exemptions in the IRS code that allow descendants of slaves to get [huge benefits](http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-news/ir-02-08.pdf) from the government) is a reasonable cause for suspicion of abuse. On the other hand, someone saying on TV that they work and collect disability benefits would seem to raise a reasonable question. > I’m not quite understanding this view. Do you think that members of Congress should not be able to question a government agency about whether a specific action by a specific private individual violated any law? I was unaware that building furniture was illegal or immoral. I might even call it good therapy for some. Clearly the guy passed the audit, and so was doing nothing wrong. How odd that someone from a group bemoaning big government power is ready and willing to use that big government power on someone he doesn’t like. No, one hopes a Senator has better things to do than play vigilante, but given that it is Coburn he would do less harm if he were locked into a room with a coloring book and a set of crayons. As for taxes, none of the protesters say that taxation is theft, as we hear so often here? You are morally justified in lying to prevent the theft of your belongings, might the IRS think that these people would feel justified in lying to minimize the “theft” of their assets? ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ok-sen-tom-coburn-give-stanley-thornton-jr-the-apology-he-has-requested/600147/34 "2011-10-19T20:25:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I know exactly what a bill of attainder is. Do you? > > Was there probable cause to believe Blackwater employees had broken the law, based on the results of the DoD’s investigation? Was there probable cause to believe Thomas had failed to disclose financial interests, based on his own financial affidavits? > > We can agree that those are a little different than something the Senator caught on TV. Even if we can’t, Blackwater and Thomas are government contractors and a government employee, respectively, not private citizens. > > Perhaps I wasn’t clear. I am perfectly happy for Coburn to demand an investigation _of the adult baby guy’s benefits_ in his capacity as a private citizen. I am not happy for him to do it as a Senator. > > I am happy for him to demand an investigation of the Social Security Administration and its disability insurance programs _generally_ in either capacity. I’m sorry, but this is a mess of an analysis. First, a bill of attainder is an act of the legislature that defines a person as guilty of crime without a trial. Nothing remotely similar to that happened in this case. Second, disability adjudication before the SSA is an Article I tribunal. That is to say, it exercises its power as a creature of Congress in pursuance of Congressional objectives. This has two consequences: one, it is entirely appropriate for a member of Congress to ask the SSA to investigate a matter; two, your objections regarding probable cause are altogether misplaced–this isn’t a criminal matter. Even if Senator Coburn asked the DOJ to investigate potential criminal activity (which did not take place here), that would not represent any constitutional overreach. Third, as a recipient of government benefits, the claimant may be asked to account for his continued eligibility at any time. There is no right to SSI benefits; they certainly don’t vest permanently after one ALJ hearing. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ok-sen-tom-coburn-give-stanley-thornton-jr-the-apology-he-has-requested/600147/35 "2011-10-19T20:28:33Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No apologies necessary. > > Mr Thornton chose to publicize the way he lives (I’m talking about his capabilities not his lifestyle). Senator Coburn saw this and had reasonable grounds to question whether Thornton was genuinely disabled. As both a private citizen and as an elected official, Coburn was justified in asking to have Thornton’s disability status reviewed. The review was made and Thornton’s status was upheld. That should be the end of it for both parties. So, you think it is fine under the First Amendment to have someone expressing unpopular views or living an unpopular lifestyle to be investigated at the request of a member of government in his official capacity? Richard Nixon is smiling in his grave. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ok-sen-tom-coburn-give-stanley-thornton-jr-the-apology-he-has-requested/600147/36 "2011-10-19T20:33:22Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > Senator Coburn is a public figure too and I have called for him to be audited by the IRS, yet nothing happens. Oh right, I forgot, I’m not a senator. Has Senator Coburn ever done anything in public that would cause you to think he cheats on his taxes? Stanley Thornton appeared in a documentary about his skills as a furniture maker. As the OP said, if somebody is able to design and build furniture, I think there’s reasonable grounds to question if they need disability payments. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ok-sen-tom-coburn-give-stanley-thornton-jr-the-apology-he-has-requested/600147/37 "2011-10-19T20:36:21Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > So, you think it is fine under the First Amendment to have someone expressing unpopular views or living an unpopular lifestyle to be investigated at the request of a member of government in his official capacity? > Richard Nixon is smiling in his grave. The part where I said “I’m talking about his capabilities not his lifestyle” just went right past you? This has nothing to do with Thornton’s views or lifestyle. It’s a question of whether or not he’s disabled. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ok-sen-tom-coburn-give-stanley-thornton-jr-the-apology-he-has-requested/600147/38 "2011-10-19T20:53:58Z")
Right, **Little Nemo**. People on the board here are presumably aware that private disability insurers often employ investigators to check up on people collecting benefits and ensure that they are actually disabled, and not cheating the company. The principle isn’t much different with the government, right? I would assume that people understand that somewhat greater scrutiny is required of people collecting benefits. This is understandably distasteful to a degree. We should be mindful of whether that scrutiny is effective as well as distasteful - whether the busybodies are actually moving people towards beneficial programs as they pore through their files, or are actually recommending them for appropriate benefits instead of denying an application until they show up again with a lawyer or disability advocate. I hope reforms are made in this area. In an era where the nature of work has changed dramatically and flexible working arrangements are easier to manage for employees and employers both, there are more people out of work on disability than ever. That is wrong. And however Mr. Thornton’s case goes, this has to change, for everyone’s sake. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ok-sen-tom-coburn-give-stanley-thornton-jr-the-apology-he-has-requested/600147/39 "2011-10-19T20:59:07Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > In an era where the nature of work has changed dramatically and flexible working arrangements are easier to manage for employees and employers both, there are more people out of work on disability than ever. Also, note that bit – bolding mine – near the end of the article: _“he describes trauma stemming from childhood abuse, combined with other mental and physical problems that he said make it impossible to maintain employment, **including the security guard position he held for 1 1/2 years.** ”_ ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ok-sen-tom-coburn-give-stanley-thornton-jr-the-apology-he-has-requested/600147/40 "2011-10-19T21:05:49Z")
While I would love to see Coburn apologizing for things he’ said in the past this story doesn’t merit it. > [@shiftless](#): > > Senator Coburn is a public figure too and I have called for him to be audited by the IRS, yet nothing happens. Oh right, I forgot, I’m not a senator. Do you have any evidence Thorton was investigated solely on Coburn’s request? Some evidence he abused his power? It seems to me Coburn publicly calling for an investigation would inspire others to make such a request. I think if enough people call for an investigation its reasonable for SS to do a review. The investigation may have had more to do with Coburn being a public figure then it had to do with him being a Senator. If you happen to be say secretly Anderson Cooper, go on your show tonight and call for Coburn to be audited. Something might indeed happen and it would have nothing to do with being a Senator. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ok-sen-tom-coburn-give-stanley-thornton-jr-the-apology-he-has-requested/600147.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ok-sen-tom-coburn-give-stanley-thornton-jr-the-apology-he-has-requested/600147.md?page=3)