# Should one's past as an adolescent bully be used against them in adulthood? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 28, 2020, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ones-past-as-an-adolescent-bully-be-used-against-them-in-adulthood/924131 "2020-10-28T17:36:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ones-past-as-an-adolescent-bully-be-used-against-them-in-adulthood/924131/121 "2020-11-06T04:45:19Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > …Redemption is (and should be) possible… Agreed. For instance, see: > **[New York Times profiles convicted murderer who graduated from Tulane Law](https://www.nola.com/news/crime_police/article_0dea65b5-7109-569b-9173-ffe19706c878.html)** > > A Tulane law graduate got a 3,000 word profile in the New York Times' Sunday edition. That Tulane law graduate also happened to commit murder in 1992. > **[Shon Hopwood](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shon_Hopwood)** > > Shon Robert Hopwood (born June 11, 1975) is an American appellate lawyer and professor of law at Georgetown University Law Center. Hopwood became well-known as a jailhouse lawyer who served time in prison for bank robbery. While in prison, he started spending time in the law library, and became an accomplished United States Supreme Court practitioner by the time he left in 2009. > Hopwood is the son of Robert Mark Hopwood and Becky Richards, who raised him in a Christian home. He grew up in Davi... ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2020, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ones-past-as-an-adolescent-bully-be-used-against-them-in-adulthood/924131/122 "2020-11-06T07:07:01Z")
I thought his story sounded familiar, and the end of that Wiki story confirmed it - that he was on “60 Minutes.” ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2020, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ones-past-as-an-adolescent-bully-be-used-against-them-in-adulthood/924131/123 "2020-11-09T22:02:03Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > t’s not our responsibility to create the most comfortable atmosphere for him to express remorse and regret. That is his problem. There are plenty of other people who can do his job. If he can’t find it in himself to even pretend to be a decent person, then fuck him. We don’t need him. I don’t need him. I suggested in my first post that I would be reluctant to hire him 30 years from now. And I understand that most people choose punishment rather than remorse. I just remind you that it’s a choice. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2022, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ones-past-as-an-adolescent-bully-be-used-against-them-in-adulthood/924131/124 "2022-11-08T21:29:09Z")
BUMP Arizona declined to take Miller; Bruins offered him an entry-level contract this year; Bruins’ locker room was upset; Bruins rescinded the contract offer. > **[Boston Bruins cut ties with prospect Mitchell Miller, who bullied Black...](https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/boston-bruins-release-mitchell-miller-1.6639257)** > > The Boston Bruins decided Sunday to rescind their contract offer to prospect Mitchell Miller, who had his draft rights relinquished by Arizona for bullying a Black classmate with developmental disabilities in middle school. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2022, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ones-past-as-an-adolescent-bully-be-used-against-them-in-adulthood/924131/125 "2022-11-08T21:58:01Z")
This was all over the radio waves here in Boston. The Bruins partner with some organizations to support developmentally disabled kids, and this didn’t go over well. Nothing about this went over well. It was ugly and getting uglier so the Bruins cut their losses. No one came out looking good here, including Miller who it appears just issued the court ordered apology and did nothing else to make amends until the Bruins offered him a contract. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2022, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ones-past-as-an-adolescent-bully-be-used-against-them-in-adulthood/924131/126 "2022-11-08T22:12:47Z")
My reading of an earlier article on CNN was that a major impetus behind the Bruins rescinding the contract was Gary Bettman declaring that Miller was “not eligible” to play in the NHL, further adding that he couldn’t say if Miller would ever be eligible. But perhaps the Bruins players objected, too. And it’s really bad optics for the Bruins organization. I’ve said before that sports figures and the organizations that employ them need to be well aware that children and young people look up to them, often as heroes and role models. I’m a big believer in second chances but an NHL contract sounds like too sweet a reward too soon for someone who was charged and convicted of a really horrible act. I don’t know what sort of criminal record the conviction left him with, but Miller might technically not even be admissible into Canada, a bit of a problem for an NHL player. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2022, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ones-past-as-an-adolescent-bully-be-used-against-them-in-adulthood/924131/127 "2022-11-08T23:00:05Z")
Agree - too soon and too big a reward for such behavior. Athletes at any age and at any level (not just elite athletes) should take a lesson from this whole sad affair - people watch you on the field of play, but your conduct off the field also matters and has consequences, so don’t be a dick. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2022, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ones-past-as-an-adolescent-bully-be-used-against-them-in-adulthood/924131/128 "2022-11-10T17:31:22Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I don’t know what sort of criminal record the conviction left him with, but Miller might technically not even be admissible into Canada, a bit of a problem for an NHL player. That’s a good question. I don’t know the answer, but I would speculate it wouldn’t keep him out of Canada since the conviction was in juvenile court. That would be the equivalent of Youth Court here, and Youth Court records are sealed after a certain time if the young person doesn’t get into further trouble with the law. The law is based on the idea that young persons can rehabilitate as they mature, and therefore youth records shouldn’t be a perpetual record, unlike adults. On that analysis, it may be that juvenile records don’t act as a bar to entry into Canada, provided there has been no subsequent criminal activity. Pure speculation on my part. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2022, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ones-past-as-an-adolescent-bully-be-used-against-them-in-adulthood/924131/129 "2022-11-10T17:32:45Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Agree - too soon and too big a reward for such behavior. The kicker, of course, is that pro sports athletes have to enter the big leagues young, so “too soon” translates to “never” for potential pro athletes. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2022, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ones-past-as-an-adolescent-bully-be-used-against-them-in-adulthood/924131/130 "2022-11-10T18:25:05Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Gary Bettman declaring that Miller was “not eligible” to play in the NHL, further adding that he couldn’t say if Miller would ever be eligible. While I am grateful that Miller will not be in the NHL and grateful for the Bruins players saying something, I wonder how much of Bettmans’ response was driven by the Kyrie Irving situation. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2022, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ones-past-as-an-adolescent-bully-be-used-against-them-in-adulthood/924131/131 "2022-11-11T01:04:44Z")
Another should-one’s-past-be-used-against-them story is playing out in Finland. Back in 2015 astrophysicist Christian Ott got in trouble at Caltech over “gender-based harassment” (details are murky) and wound up losing his job. He has since been offered positions in his field in Sweden and later in Finland; both offers were rescinded after protests erupted. Ott sued two Finnish academicians who organized an open letter denouncing harassment, connected to a complaint about his job offer in Finland (the Finnish _government_ took charge of prosecuting the defamation case and a decision is pending). > **[Astronomers await verdict in defamation case after protesting hire of accused...](https://www.science.org/content/article/astronomers-await-verdict-defamation-case-after-protesting-hire-accused-harasser)** > > Former Caltech astronomer Christian Ott filed a criminal complaint against two Finnish academics after a new job offer was withdrawn Should this guy be forever banned from working as an astrophysicist because of his past transgressions? It would help to know how egregious the offenses were that he was linked to at Caltech. Miller’s actions were severe and prolonged enough to justify long-term repercussions even though he was “only” an eighth-grader when they occurred. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2022, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ones-past-as-an-adolescent-bully-be-used-against-them-in-adulthood/924131/132 "2022-11-11T01:39:39Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Should this guy be forever banned from working as an astrophysicist because of his past transgressions? It would help to know how egregious the offenses were that he was linked to at Caltech. He “fell in love with one of his grad students,” and then he fired her for it. He sent her reams of emails/texts harrassing her. Creepy stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2022, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ones-past-as-an-adolescent-bully-be-used-against-them-in-adulthood/924131/133 "2022-11-11T01:50:56Z")
I dislike bullies. I understand their behaviour stems in part from a complex milieu of childhood difficulties, personality issues, parental modelling and attitudes, degree of ability to empathize, misinformation, ignorance, trauma and other factors. One should consider the degree of bullying and certainty regarding the facts, duration, whether efforts to apologize or make amends were made, whether there were penalties, common attitudes at that time, whether this is likely to renn my sun an issue, and other things. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2022, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ones-past-as-an-adolescent-bully-be-used-against-them-in-adulthood/924131/134 "2022-11-11T01:53:21Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > He “fell in love with one of his grad students,” and then he fired her for it. He sent her reams of emails/texts harrassing her. Creepy stuff. Exactly. Asking if he should be forever banned from working as an astrophysicist is only half the equation. The other half of the equation is: should young female astrophysicists have to work with him to advance their careers, with his track record of sexual harassment? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2022, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ones-past-as-an-adolescent-bully-be-used-against-them-in-adulthood/924131/135 "2022-11-11T02:15:07Z")
I suspect this astrophysicist’s career is over, and the only way he can support himself, besides maybe working at McDonald’s, is by applying for jobs and suing them when he’s rejected. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2022, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ones-past-as-an-adolescent-bully-be-used-against-them-in-adulthood/924131/136 "2022-11-11T02:38:53Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > whether this is likely to renn my sun an issue ??? If that’s autoincorrect for something, I can’t figure out what. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2022, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ones-past-as-an-adolescent-bully-be-used-against-them-in-adulthood/924131/137 "2022-11-11T03:06:22Z")
I have no idea how “remain” morphed into that. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2022, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ones-past-as-an-adolescent-bully-be-used-against-them-in-adulthood/924131/138 "2022-11-11T04:24:40Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Miller admitted in an Ohio juvenile court to bullying Meyer-Crothers, who was tricked into licking a candy push pop that Miller and another boy had wiped in a bathroom urinal. This is pretty bad reporting. He was convicted of a crime (albeit in juvenile court) and I assume that crime was not “bullying” (I don’t think that is a crime anywhere in the US?) He actually admitted to assault or some similar crime (I think this would count assault? IANAL. Possibly a lawyer could chime in as to what crime this would qualify as?) If someone was “bullying” as in they were mean and called someone names, that would be one thing, this is much worse than that. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2022, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ones-past-as-an-adolescent-bully-be-used-against-them-in-adulthood/924131/139 "2022-11-11T05:03:51Z")
I’m stunned that there are people in this thread that think theft and drug dealing are worse than bullying. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2022, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ones-past-as-an-adolescent-bully-be-used-against-them-in-adulthood/924131/140 "2022-11-11T05:19:24Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Exactly. Asking if he should be forever banned from working as an astrophysicist is only half the equation. > > The other half of the equation is: should young female astrophysicists have to work with him to advance their careers, with his track record of sexual harassment? Given that women are frequently found throughout various job sectors, why limit this to academia? If he’s banned from working as an astrophysicist on account of his history of harassment, shouldn’t he be barred from working anywhere where women might also be members of the workforce? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ones-past-as-an-adolescent-bully-be-used-against-them-in-adulthood/924131.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-ones-past-as-an-adolescent-bully-be-used-against-them-in-adulthood/924131.md?page=8)