# Should organ donation be mandatory? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 20, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-organ-donation-be-mandatory/772597 "2016-11-20T21:42:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-organ-donation-be-mandatory/772597/81 "2016-11-28T23:28:28Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > You’re conflating ‘choice’ and ‘outcome of choice’ here. > > I don’t want to force anyone to donate their organs. I just want to apply the very gentlest of possible pressure for them to _make a choice_. It’s not the same thing. > > A change in the understanding of the default answer to a yes or no choice is not the same as forcing people to say ‘yes’. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Exactly. All we are saying is that you must make a choice and if you dont the People will decide for you. Which is what happens to your estate if you dont have a Will or trust. That’s a little different than the people saying that non-donors should be left to die if they need a transplant. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-organ-donation-be-mandatory/772597/82 "2016-11-28T23:39:55Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-organ-donation-be-mandatory/772597/83 "2016-11-28T23:47:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > That’s a little different than the people saying that non-donors should be left to die if they need a transplant. Yes, it’s different. Neither **DrDeth** nor I have asserted that non-donors should be left to die. Our point is that you should make a choice - but just that the action/inaction tables are turned. At the moment, the outcome of being too lazy to care one way or the other about organ donation is the same as the outcome of being opposed to it. We are proposing only that the outcome of being too lazy to care one way or the other be aligned with the same outcome as wishing to be a donor. People opposed to it can keep their same outcome by simply opting out. (Which actually is more consistent with what they want anyway). ---
**Author:** ![yesanything](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@yesanything](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yesanything)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-organ-donation-be-mandatory/772597/84 "2016-11-29T21:48:15Z")
I heard somewhere that in the state of Washington you have to opt "OUT"of being an organ donor as opposed to most other states where you have to opt “IN” ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-organ-donation-be-mandatory/772597/85 "2016-11-29T22:02:43Z")
> [@yesanything](#): > > I heard somewhere that in the state of Washington you have to opt "OUT"of being an organ donor as opposed to most other states where you have to opt “IN” That doesn’t appear to be true - [http://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/organdonor.html](http://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/organdonor.html) ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-organ-donation-be-mandatory/772597/86 "2016-11-29T23:48:18Z")
> [@Maurie](#): > > Well said. I don’t understand how anyone is viewing the opt-out suggestion as being forced donation, and would love if that perspective could be clarified by one of the “The state doesn’t own my body” proponents. To me, it’s not that opt-out = forced donation, it’s that the default position is organ donation. If something goes wrong and my opt-out is somehow not acknowledged, my organs will be taken against my wishes. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-organ-donation-be-mandatory/772597/87 "2016-11-30T18:58:33Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > To me, it’s not that opt-out = forced donation, it’s that the default position is organ donation. If something goes wrong and my opt-out is somehow not acknowledged, my organs will be taken against my wishes. and just _why_ do you want your organs to rot and feed worms rather than being put to good use? ---
**Author:** ![Maurie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Maurie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maurie)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-organ-donation-be-mandatory/772597/88 "2016-11-30T20:35:33Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Yes, it’s different. Neither **DrDeth** nor I have asserted that non-donors should be left to die. Our point is that you should make a choice - but just that the action/inaction tables are turned. I did make that assertion, sort of. I don’t actually want someone in need to be denied an organ, but I do have a hard time understanding the rationale of someone who wouldn’t want to donate, but would want to receive. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-organ-donation-be-mandatory/772597/89 "2016-11-30T20:43:50Z")
> [@Maurie](#): > > I did make that assertion, sort of. I don’t actually want someone in need to be denied an organ, but I do have a hard time understanding the rationale of someone who wouldn’t want to donate, but would want to receive. Well, yes. I dont them them denied, but I do demand a decent explanation. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-organ-donation-be-mandatory/772597/90 "2016-12-01T23:01:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > and just _why_ do you want your organs to rot and feed worms rather than being put to good use? Because they’re mine and just because organ donation is an option doesn’t mean it has to happen, and not with my parts. And I don’t want the angels to have to look all over the place to find my particles. 🙂 That said, I do donate blood. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-organ-donation-be-mandatory/772597/91 "2016-12-01T23:30:19Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Because they’re mine and just because organ donation is an option doesn’t mean it has to happen, and not with my parts. And I don’t want the angels to have to look all over the place to find my particles. 🙂 > > That said, I do donate blood. Not after death. and “they’re mine” seems pretty selfish. Angels, are you serious? I see the smily there, but after you are reduced to worm poo, the angels will have a pretty tough time getting you back together no matter where you parts started. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-organ-donation-be-mandatory/772597/92 "2016-12-02T07:37:46Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > To me, it’s not that opt-out = forced donation, it’s that the default position is organ donation. If something goes wrong and my opt-out is somehow not acknowledged, my organs will be taken against my wishes. Certainly that’s a risk - and it’s the reason why I proposed: [ul] [li]Make it opt-out.[/li][li]Make opting out piss-easy **and reliable**.[/li][li]Guarantee that opting out will stay easy.[/li][/ul] Nothing is ever 100% reliable - I mean, even under the existing opt-in system, there could be a mixup that results in you being mistaken for a consenting donor, but we manage to attain _acceptable_ reliability on this and a vast range of important things, so I see no reason why we couldn’t do that with an opt-out system. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-organ-donation-be-mandatory/772597/93 "2016-12-02T07:44:37Z")
> [@Maurie](#): > > I did make that assertion, sort of. I don’t actually want someone in need to be denied an organ, but I do have a hard time understanding the rationale of someone who wouldn’t want to donate, but would want to receive. Me too, but I think enforcing the denial of organs to people unwilling to donate would just be a dick move - not appropriate for healthcare provision. Two stupids don’t make a smart. People should have access to available healthcare according to their need - they should not have to qualify. Even in other cases such as where their health problem is the direct result of self-destructive activity such as smoking, drugs, or hamburgers - denial of care at the point of delivery is not the right way to deal with any of these problems (IMO). ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-organ-donation-be-mandatory/772597/94 "2016-12-02T08:13:47Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > …People should have access to available healthcare according to their need - they should not have to qualify… In general I agree. But organs are a special case. It’s not just a question of additional expenditure. It is often quite literally a choice that you can _either_ give life to one person _or_ another. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-organ-donation-be-mandatory/772597/95 "2016-12-02T08:17:45Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > In general I agree. > > But organs are a special case. It’s not just a question of additional expenditure. It is often quite literally a choice that you can _either_ give life to one person _or_ another. Sure - people can’t have access to things that aren’t available - and medical professionals must make judgments on the allocation of scarce resources - this already happens with organ transplants at the moment. I wouldn’t propose to change any of that - except that the opt-out scheme should increase availability. But the question of whether a person is a willing donor is (or should be) entirely irrelevant to the judgment of their suitability as a recipient. Medical professionals should not have to care about that factor. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-organ-donation-be-mandatory/772597/96 "2016-12-02T08:23:49Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Sure - people can’t have access to things that aren’t available - and medical professionals must make judgments on the allocation of scarce resources - this already happens with organ transplants at the moment. I wouldn’t propose to change any of that - except that the opt-out scheme should increase availability. ? But my point is, when you have an absolutely limited resource, and you have to choose who should get that benefit, that’s a qualitatively different situation from just asking whether we should (say) spend extra money on caring for someone who doesn’t look after themselves. When there are two people you could save with an available organ, I can see a reasonable argument for always prioritizing a willing donor over a non-donor. Which could mean that non-donors pretty much never receive an organ. I know you don’t agree, but it _is_ a qualitatively different situation from the broader notion that in general we should give people the care that they need, not what they have earnt. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-organ-donation-be-mandatory/772597/97 "2016-12-02T08:31:09Z")
I’m in the opt-out camp as well. But I don’t necessarily think it should be made ridiculously easy. If an adult person is seriously committed to having their organs remain with their body at burial/cremation, then they should have to seriously commit to going through the process of opting OUT of the donation process. In the case of minors (under 15), I do believe the parents should have the final say, but I would hope that as the donation idea becomes more accepted, then more parents would see donation of organs as the default option and refusal to donate the aberration. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-organ-donation-be-mandatory/772597/98 "2016-12-02T08:44:32Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > But organs are a special case. It’s not just a question of additional expenditure. It is often quite literally a choice that you can _either_ give life to one person _or_ another. How often does the circumstance arise that a who person _needs_ an organ is still capable of _giving_ one? Most of the illnesses that require a transplant happen at an older age where the organs are suboptimal at best, or are of such a nature that disqualifies that person from donating. At that point, you’re not making a decision based on a sound triage - you’re punishing people for their moral choices earlier in life. > [@Maurie](#): > > I did make that assertion, sort of. I don’t actually want someone in need to be denied an organ, but I do have a hard time understanding the rationale of someone who wouldn’t want to donate, but would want to receive. I’m not a donor because I’m aware that medical professionals don’t always dot all their I’s and cross all their T’s before declaring someone dead, and I worry that as a donor there might be an extra impetus to decide that I’m dead so I can be cut up and parceled out when in fact I might still be savable. It may sound farfetched or paranoid, but there are examples of it happening in the real world and it’s not a gamble I’m willing to take. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-organ-donation-be-mandatory/772597/99 "2016-12-02T08:56:06Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > …you’re punishing people for their moral choices earlier in life… Yes, it is based on earlier moral choices. But it is not _punishment_. I’m not suggesting that if an extra organ is available, we should withhold it out of spite. It is the criterion for choice in a situation where, whatever choice you make, one person will live and one person will die. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-organ-donation-be-mandatory/772597/100 "2016-12-02T09:00:48Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Yes, it is based on earlier moral choices. But it is not _punishment_. I’m not suggesting that if an extra organ is available, we should withhold it out of spite. It is the criterion for choice in a situation where, whatever choice you make, one person will live and one person will die. And in that circumstance, whether or not the recipient would have been willing to donate an organ when they were young and healthy is _irrelevant_ to the good that that organ do them today. Between a donor and a non-donor, the donor isn’t going to live longer because they put a little pink sticker on their driver’s license. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-organ-donation-be-mandatory/772597.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-organ-donation-be-mandatory/772597.md?page=6)