# Should Pan-handling Be Illegal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 5, 2003, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-pan-handling-be-illegal/199729 "2003-09-05T14:59:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-pan-handling-be-illegal/199729/61 "2003-09-09T12:51:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by msmith537 \* > Panhandlers and derelicts have a broken window effect on the neighborhoods they inhabit. They scare off regular folk and make the neighborhoods look like crap. I don’t want to worry about my girlfriend having to walk past some crazy guy with one sock walking in circles muttering to himself. I don’t want to have to watch for homeless people shadowing people into my building and lurking in the stairwells. I don’t want the ‘peace and quiet’ of my commute interupted by some guys “'scuse me ladies and gentlemen” speech. If you allow them to hang around, pretty soon the only people who occupy your trainstations, parks and plazas will be panhandlers and street people. It sounds to me like you don’t have a problem with panhandling so much as a problem with homeless people existing. As **Isabelle** says, though, you can’t ban the homeless. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-pan-handling-be-illegal/199729/62 "2003-09-09T15:27:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by msmith537 \* > **Really? Because mostly I feel disgusted. I don’t know why they’re homeless and I don’t care. I’m sure they all have a story and it’s all very sad.** This is just so beautiful. Excuse me, I think I’ve got something in my eye… ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-pan-handling-be-illegal/199729/63 "2003-09-09T16:09:45Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not completely heartless. Could have fooled me… I thought that **Chefguy’s** _Christmas Carol_ quote of Scrooge’s was apt for some of the posters in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![cowgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cowgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cowgirl)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-pan-handling-be-illegal/199729/64 "2003-09-09T16:34:13Z")
Question: is there something that homeless/panhandlers do to actually threaten you? **msmith** mentions he doesn’t want his girlfriend threatened by the shuffling, muttering guy. Fair dues. But honestly, other than the harassment (which is illegal already), what do they do to make you nervous? I imagine that the guy shuffling around in circles with unfocused eyes is not a threat to anyone. He’s got enough going on in his head already to worry about dealing with a stranger. The reason I say this is because of one man near a store I worked at, who yelled and flailed and made people feel uncomfortable. But he was a puppy when confronted, he would lower his eyes and slink away as soon as someone acknowledged his presence. Other street-shufflers tend to ignore me completely, especially if I smile and say hello. I have dealt with many street people of many degrees of ‘threatening-ness’ and never, ever, has my personal safety been in question. Those aren’t the people in darkened neighbourhoods that I worry about. And won’t someone address my question of what gives you the right to demand that someone go to a shelter that features worse-than-refugee-camp living conditions (widespread TB, lice, theft etc)? I’d certainly rather live on the street than in a place like that. ---
**Author:** ![In\_Conceivable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4bbf92/32.png) [@In\_Conceivable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/In_Conceivable)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-pan-handling-be-illegal/199729/65 "2003-09-09T17:59:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cowgirl \* > \*\*And won’t someone address my question of what gives you the right to demand that someone go to a shelter that features worse-than-refugee-camp living conditions (widespread TB, lice, theft etc)? I’d certainly rather live on the street than in a place like that. \*\* Amen! And while you are at it please tell us what you would like someone to do if the shelters are full or won’t take them. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-pan-handling-be-illegal/199729/66 "2003-09-10T19:58:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cowgirl \* > Question: is there something that homeless/panhandlers do to actually threaten you? **msmith** mentions he doesn’t want his girlfriend threatened by the shuffling, muttering guy. Fair dues. But honestly, other than the harassment (which is illegal already), what do they do to make you nervous? Did I just wander into crazytown here? I don’t want to be approached by human SPAM asking for money! It is a nusance to have someone approach you and ask for “bus fair” because they “left their wallet at home”. Yeah right. Some reason you can’t walk home? I don’t want to be followed down the street in the middle of the night by some crazy guy asking for money. What am I nervous of? How about that this crack-field is going to freak out when I say “no” and chase me around Union Square with a freakin butcher knife? What is so hard to understand about that? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cowgirl \* > And won’t someone address my question of what gives you the right to demand that someone go to a shelter that features worse-than-refugee-camp living conditions (widespread TB, lice, theft etc)? \*\* I don’t demand they go to a shelter. I just demand that they don’t hang out in front of my building. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-pan-handling-be-illegal/199729/67 "2003-09-10T21:41:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AmericanMaid \* > \*\*No. Pan-handling shouldn’t be illegal. If it upsets/bothers some people, well why don’t you donate to shelters? \*\* > > It does, and I do. > > \*\* Rather than thinking up ways to make poor people’s lives harder, why don’t you think up ways to help? I have never been bothered by pan-handlers so I don’t understand why this is such a big deal that it requires legislation. > \*\* > Asking for money is free speech. Accepting money is a financial transaction. Financial transactions are regulated by every level of Government. > > In my area, free speech was used as a method of striking down panhandling laws. So now panhandlers are required to get what is basically a vendor’s license. Complete with photo ID. > > I don’t like people coming up to me in the street and asking for money. I know where the money goes because I see them later in the day. The paperbag “lunch” is not an isolated incident. I would say it is a majority of the cases. It is not a pretty picture and the people involved are slowly killing themselves with money donated by people who think they are helping them. If you want to donate money, save your quarter, add it to another quarter and write a check to an organization that will help. > > \*\* > I’m sorry if other’s people’s debilitating problems bother you, Isabelle. What doesn’t bother you? First it’s gay people getting a day at Disney, then Ozzy Osbourne and now it’s pan-handlers. Geez, if Isabelle was president, we’d all have to be rich, sober, heterosexuals. \*\* > > that is not part of the discussion and belongs in the pit. > \*\* > Panhandling shouldn’t be illegal. Ignorance should be. \*\* Ignorance is a blessing bestowed on all of us. Some more than others. I will continue to keep my money at arms length from individuals who are determined to self destruct. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-pan-handling-be-illegal/199729.md?page=3)