# Should parents be trained an licensed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 30, 2016, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-parents-be-trained-an-licensed/761332 "2016-07-30T22:15:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-parents-be-trained-an-licensed/761332/121 "2016-08-04T07:57:29Z")
And how do you “get rid of the family system”, warehouses? The family system works, in its multiple versions. Orphanages, nowhere near as well. Situations like the kibbutzim or like charity houses where people could leave their child without relinquishing paternal rights (which used to exist) work in part thanks to not cutting the family bonds completely. Another thing which helps reduce the pressure to have unwanted children by reducing the need to “have someone to take care of me in my old age” is better old-age safety nets. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-parents-be-trained-an-licensed/761332/122 "2016-08-04T12:21:38Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > Well there is also the matter of parents “owning their kids”. Saying that is my child and I can do what I want because I made them, without any regard for the kid itself. Same answer, because it is the same question. Non-abusive parents do not say they can do what they want without regard for the welfare of their children, and there are relatively few abusive parents. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2016, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-parents-be-trained-an-licensed/761332/123 "2016-08-04T20:13:06Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Same answer, because it is the same question. Non-abusive parents do not say they can do what they want without regard for the welfare of their children, and there are relatively few abusive parents. > > Regards, > Shodan It’s not about that, is about how parents mold their kids in their image. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-parents-be-trained-an-licensed/761332/124 "2016-08-05T02:57:02Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > It’s not about that, is about how parents mold their kids in their image. That’s called parenting. It’s a feature, not a bug. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-parents-be-trained-an-licensed/761332/125 "2016-08-05T08:32:38Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > That’s called parenting. It’s a feature, not a bug. And it doesn’t work 100%. If it did, we wouldn’t have psychos coming from nice families, but we also wouldn’t have people like **TokyoBayer** or **Spice Weasel** who manage to rise above a lousy childhood. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-parents-be-trained-an-licensed/761332/126 "2016-08-05T12:12:23Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > It’s not about that, is about how parents mold their kids in their image. Again - same thing, same answer. Most parents do a reasonably acceptable job of molding their kids in their image. A much better job than any orphanage, no matter how well funded or how much you pay the janitor. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-parents-be-trained-an-licensed/761332/127 "2016-08-05T14:39:57Z")
Many people who promote eugenics assume that they themselves would fall into the ‘qualified/passing’ category. It’s always \*other \*people who will be culled/sterilized/banned from procreation/kids taken away by government. I’m not attacking you, **Machinaforce** , but pointing out that it’s airy and easy to propose controversial policies - until/unless they affect \*you \*personally. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-parents-be-trained-an-licensed/761332/128 "2016-08-05T23:49:05Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > And it doesn’t work 100%. If it did, we wouldn’t have psychos coming from nice families, but we also wouldn’t have people like **TokyoBayer** or **Spice Weasel** who manage to rise above a lousy childhood. But people shouldn’t have to rise above. The number that rise above bad families is a small number. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2016, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-parents-be-trained-an-licensed/761332/129 "2016-08-05T23:50:06Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Again - same thing, same answer. Most parents do a reasonably acceptable job of molding their kids in their image. A much better job than any orphanage, no matter how well funded or how much you pay the janitor. > > Regards, > Shodan I think you are missing the point that molding the child in your image is a bad thing. Because then the child becomes you instead of its own person. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-parents-be-trained-an-licensed/761332/130 "2016-08-06T02:43:46Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I think you are missing the point that molding the child in your image is a bad thing. Because then the child becomes you instead of its own person. Then what would YOU reccomend as a model of parenting? Let the child decide how he/she wants to be raised? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-parents-be-trained-an-licensed/761332/131 "2016-08-06T16:56:39Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > I think you are missing the point that molding the child in your image is a bad thing. Because then the child becomes you instead of its own person. No, it isn’t a bad thing, and nobody’s children becomes them. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-parents-be-trained-an-licensed/761332/132 "2016-08-06T18:21:41Z")
I don’t get why the only solution is taking the kids away. To me, a large part of the issue is education. Why not teach everyone the basics of parenting (and other life skills) while in school? Sure, current parents will squawk about what their kids are taught (regardless of what the curriculum is) but there should be some sort of base knowledge everyone has. Most of the horror stories I’ve heard from teachers and social workers come down the just plain ignorance on the part of parents about what they’re responsible for and what’s expected of them, often because that’s not how they were raised. It seems to me that “fighting ignorance” on this front would be a huge benefit, even without resorting to draconian measures. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-parents-be-trained-an-licensed/761332/133 "2016-08-07T01:01:16Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, it isn’t a bad thing, and nobody’s children becomes them. > > Regards, > Shodan Well The children obviously learn the traditions from somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-parents-be-trained-an-licensed/761332/134 "2016-08-07T01:02:45Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > I don’t get why the only solution is taking the kids away. To me, a large part of the issue is education. Why not teach everyone the basics of parenting (and other life skills) while in school? Sure, current parents will squawk about what their kids are taught (regardless of what the curriculum is) but there should be some sort of base knowledge everyone has. Most of the horror stories I’ve heard from teachers and social workers come down the just plain ignorance on the part of parents about what they’re responsible for and what’s expected of them, often because that’s not how they were raised. It seems to me that “fighting ignorance” on this front would be a huge benefit, even without resorting to draconian measures. But some would argue that they wouldn’t need to have such skills if they don’t want to be parents. Plus how can you be sure they are doing as instructed without some sort of inspection? ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-parents-be-trained-an-licensed/761332/135 "2016-08-07T01:03:46Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Then what would YOU reccomend as a model of parenting? Let the child decide how he/she wants to be raised? That is certainly one way to go about it. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-parents-be-trained-an-licensed/761332/136 "2016-08-07T02:37:14Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Then what would YOU reccomend as a model of parenting? Let the child decide how he/she wants to be raised? It takes a village to raise a child. I think that’s sound advice. Kids first lost the village with urbanization, then the extended family when the model became the nuclear family, and pretty much any outside influence now since free-range children don’t exist anymore and parents seem to reject more and more any kind of external interference in their parenting (for instance, the accepted norm nowadays seems to to adress the parents for any witnessed misbehavior, never the kid himself directly). As a result, kids aren’t exposed anymore to a variety of behaviours, temperaments, views, etc… As a former raised by a village free range kid, I think that being sternly chastized by irascible neighbour Bob for something that your parents find perfectly acceptable, being encouraged by old aunt Martha in a behaviour that your parent find objectionable, being shouted at for very good reasons or for no discernable reason by the crazy drunkard down the road are good things. The idea that raising a child is a matter for the parents alone is novel, and leaves me very unconvinced. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-parents-be-trained-an-licensed/761332/137 "2016-08-07T02:55:22Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > But people shouldn’t have to rise above. The number that rise above bad families is a small number. Define “bad families.” Of course we can all agree that things like sexual abuse, failing to feed, clothe, shelter, etc. are things which can cause kids to be removed from their parents. Those laws are in place now. What are we screening for apart from these things? Even if we only screened for these things (which I don’t believe your proposal does) then we are in a sort of a Minority Report type of scenario where we try to predict future crimes and punish people for things they have not done. The proposal is so frighteningly totalitarian, and even if we agreed to become that way would be impossible to implement, that it is amazing that people actually give it any serious discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2016, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-parents-be-trained-an-licensed/761332/138 "2016-08-07T04:37:29Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > That is certainly one way to go about it. Really? And you think children know best? When I was a kid, I thought it was unfair to have a bedtime, to have to go to school, that I couldn’t have ice cream for dinner. So I should have decided that, not my parents? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Machinaforce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Machinaforce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machinaforce)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-parents-be-trained-an-licensed/761332/139 "2016-08-08T06:34:14Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > It takes a village to raise a child. I think that’s sound advice. Kids first lost the village with urbanization, then the extended family when the model became the nuclear family, and pretty much any outside influence now since free-range children don’t exist anymore and parents seem to reject more and more any kind of external interference in their parenting (for instance, the accepted norm nowadays seems to to adress the parents for any witnessed misbehavior, never the kid himself directly). As a result, kids aren’t exposed anymore to a variety of behaviours, temperaments, views, etc… > > As a former raised by a village free range kid, I think that being sternly chastized by irascible neighbour Bob for something that your parents find perfectly acceptable, being encouraged by old aunt Martha in a behaviour that your parent find objectionable, being shouted at for very good reasons or for no discernable reason by the crazy drunkard down the road are good things. The idea that raising a child is a matter for the parents alone is novel, and leaves me very unconvinced. I didn’t think of it that way. I grew up having my extended family all within driving distance, but I guess that isn’t the norm then. But that’s what I’m sort of getting with society taking responsibility for raising the child. Even though I can’t expect people who don’t want kids to care about one that isn’t theirs. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2016, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-parents-be-trained-an-licensed/761332/140 "2016-08-08T07:45:48Z")
> [@Machinaforce](#): > > But people shouldn’t have to rise above. The number that rise above bad families is a small number. So you’d rather those children not be born? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-parents-be-trained-an-licensed/761332.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-parents-be-trained-an-licensed/761332.md?page=8)