# Should penalty for DUI + killing people be worse than penalty for just DUI? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 10, 2016, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-penalty-for-dui-killing-people-be-worse-than-penalty-for-just-dui/742678 "2016-01-10T13:15:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-penalty-for-dui-killing-people-be-worse-than-penalty-for-just-dui/742678/61 "2016-01-13T22:15:41Z")
Carnal, I think we’re done here. I’m talking about DUI, not “slow witted morons” or seniors. I’ll agree that testing reaction times would greatly reduce the number of senior drivers. Now, does your idea to test reaction times as part of driving tests have anything to do with DUI? > [@slash2k](#): > > However, I think there is a case to be made that blanket treatment dilutes the impact. The person who is driving at .09 but doing 25 in a 30 zone is NOT committing the same crime and does not pose the same danger as the one who is driving at .25 and doing 70 in a 30 zone, so why should they be subjected to the same punishment? Yes, they are committing the same crime, which is driving with a BAC of over .08. The difference is one of degree, not kind. And I would argue that the first person would likely receive a lighter sentence than the second once they are convicted, given similar histories, so they are unlikely to face the same punishment. There are many laws where being just over the line is the same as being quite a bit over it. If I get busted with one gram of crystal meth, did I break the law any less than if I had 10 grams? > [@](#): > > In the public mind, it’s too often seen as not that big a deal because the truly bad 'uns are commingled with (and hence blurred by) marginal cases. I’d disagree on that, with a disclaimer stating that my anecdotes do not equal data. Outside of seniors and some selfish alcoholics I know, drinking and driving is pretty harshly denounced by everyone I’ve encountered. > [@](#): > > Further, government resources for dealing with the cases are limited. There’s only so much jail space available, e.g., and if everybody who is even slightly over the line has to have their share of it, then the ones who are really really over the line don’t get enough. That argument could be made for any crime, not just DUI. Without getting too much into the fuck-up that is the US penal system, I’d happily release some drug users or prostitutes to make room for drunk drivers. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-penalty-for-dui-killing-people-be-worse-than-penalty-for-just-dui/742678/62 "2016-01-13T22:30:05Z")
> [@Mithrander](#): > > Carnal, I think we’re done here. I’m talking about DUI, not “slow witted morons” or seniors. I’ll agree that testing reaction times would greatly reduce the number of senior drivers. Now, does your idea to test reaction times as part of driving tests have anything to do with DUI? . Does your stance on a bright line law regarding BAC have anything to do with the “moral luck” concept this thread is about? Maybe we should both shut up. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-penalty-for-dui-killing-people-be-worse-than-penalty-for-just-dui/742678/63 "2016-01-13T22:34:31Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > It can be interpreted a bunch of ways if you want to extrapolate and read in a bunch of stuff. What I said was clear enough: We think lowering your reaction time is bad, but we have no standard for a “good” reaction time. The rest is all your own addition. We didn’t make up the conclusion out of whole cloth. Your post in question was moving in a certain direction, and it wasn’t a huge leap to assume that you were saying that reaction time should be measured instead of BAC to determine impairment. You later clarified that this was not your intent, which is fine. It doesn’t make other people incompetent for reading that the first post in question seemed to be driving toward a particular point. Perhaps you should write with greater precision to avoid this from happening again, instead of blaming other people, if the misunderstanding bothers you so much. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-penalty-for-dui-killing-people-be-worse-than-penalty-for-just-dui/742678/64 "2016-01-13T22:41:36Z")
Or you could just not jump to conclusions. That’s another possibility. You know rather than blame my lack of precision for your leaps. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-penalty-for-dui-killing-people-be-worse-than-penalty-for-just-dui/742678/65 "2016-01-13T23:19:58Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Maybe we should both shut up. You first. > [@Napier](#): > > “what particular goal of punishment you think is furthered by treating identical conduct differently based on unintended consequences”. I’d argue that there is another reason why a drunk driver killing someone should be punished more severely than if there was no death. That reason is to stop vigilantes from taking the law into their own hands. If a family member of mine was killed by a drunk, I might be tempted to take the law into my own hands. If I feel that the law punished him fairly, I am far less likely to do so. > [@CarnalK](#): > > Or you could just not jump to conclusions. That’s another possibility. Now that’s just crazy talk. Do you even internet bro? ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-penalty-for-dui-killing-people-be-worse-than-penalty-for-just-dui/742678/66 "2016-01-26T23:56:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You misunderstand DUI laws a little. It’s not so much that it is fully legal to drive at 0.7; you can still be impaired below 0.8 and convicted of DUI. It’s that at 0.8 or above you are conclusively presumed to be impaired. Right. At 0.7, the prosecution has to prove that you were actually impaired, for example by proving that your reaction time was noticeably abnormal. If they can’t prove actual impairment, then you are supposed to be found not guilty. If you are at 0.8 or above, all they have to prove is that you were 0.8 or above - they don’t have to show any actual evidence of medical impairment, and no amount of evidence of non-impairment (in a practical sense) will get you off. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-penalty-for-dui-killing-people-be-worse-than-penalty-for-just-dui/742678/67 "2016-01-27T01:27:53Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Do I have to retype everything? Can you not just go back and read more carefully? I said twice that I wanted a reaction time test for getting your license. I dont want slow witted morons driving. What’s so hard to understand about that? To add to that: especially we should be retesting and doing that with Seniors. … … … What? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-penalty-for-dui-killing-people-be-worse-than-penalty-for-just-dui/742678.md?page=3)