# Should people avoid consuming art they enjoy from an artist who they dislike or disagree with on a personal level? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 13, 2023, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721 "2023-02-13T17:17:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/321 "2023-02-23T07:58:03Z")
Politically, most people agree or disagree on a topic, not on everything. Yes, i know that people tend to cluster to the right or left and often agree on many topics. But that’s why i specifically compared enjoying JK Rowling’s work to views on abortion. Because no one is going to stop being on my side on the abortion debate (which is political) based on my consumption of Harry Potter media. Anyway, are you asking if Sterling is afraid of being judged if she buys the Hogwarts video game? Are you suggesting she’s just performatively objecting to it? She doesn’t have to mention it at all on her platform, does she? FWIW, i have many friends in the trans community and they have been deeply hurt by Rowling, and take her transphobic rantings personally. I suspect most liked the Harry Potter books until Rowling used her fame, her platform, to attack them. So they feel betrayed. At this point, i wouldn’t pay for anything that Rowling gets royalties from for fear of funding her megaphone. I might consume her art in ways that wouldn’t send any money her way, but i wouldn’t mention it those friends, because that would be like kicking them in the face. Why poke an open wound? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/322 "2023-02-23T08:13:41Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Anyway, are you asking if Sterling is afraid of being judged if she buys the Hogwarts video game? Are you suggesting she’s just performatively objecting to it? She doesn’t have to mention it at all on her platform, does she? Please view the video in the OP. (As an aside, I was told in this thread that Sterling prefers “they” as a pronoun.) > [@puzzlegal](#): > > FWIW, i have many friends in the trans community and they have been deeply hurt by Rowling… There is no doubt Rowling is a transphobe and I would be surprised if there is a trans person who is not aware of that not to mention most people over 20 of any stripe. I think it is worth noting that a few people have said in this thread that they have trans friends who love the Potter books and strongly recommend them. My broader point is I am not sure telling people that they are “bad” in some respect because they consume Potter books or games or art or whatever is helpful to promoting trans rights. That got the whole “ally” thing going in this thread but I think posters here are being weirdly restrictive of what “ally” can mean. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/323 "2023-02-23T08:41:56Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Please view the video in the OP. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > My broader point is I am not sure telling people that they are “bad” in some respect because they consume Potter books or games or art or whatever is helpful to promoting trans rights. …have you watched the video in the OP? Because it still looks like you’ve taken the wrong message away from it. Perhaps you need to watch it again. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/324 "2023-02-23T09:12:12Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Because it still looks like you’ve taken the wrong message away from it. Perhaps you need to watch it again. Perhaps you have taken the wrong message and need to watch it again. Note the quote marks around “bad.” Sterling is not saying you are swell and fine and a champ for playing Hogwarts Legacy. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/325 "2023-02-23T09:17:30Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Perhaps you have taken the wrong message and need to watch it again. …nah, I’m good thanks. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Note the quote marks around “bad.” Sterling is not saying you are swell and fine and a champ for playing Hogwarts Legacy. They certainly aren’t implying that you are bad. Nor is anyone else in this thread, really. At this stage, after over 300 posts, this is a strawman. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/326 "2023-02-23T10:06:51Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I think posters here are being weirdly restrictive of what “ally” can mean. My opinion. If “ally” is to mean anything to me at all then it must surely apply to the situation that exists between me and my family (and I’m sure that applies to others as well) I love them more than I love myself. I’d take a bullet for them in a heartbeat, I’d swap their pain for mine, I’d stand up for them and care for them when they are unable to. One couldn’t ask for any more of a meaningful “ally” relationship. What it _doesn’t_ mean is unqualified or unquestioning agreement with their beliefs and actions. If I think they are wrong about the end result they seek, the methods they use to get there or if they have flaws in their thinking or they behave badly or refuse to listen to others, I’ll say so. I actively do them harm by not speaking up if my ultimate wish for that person is for a good life. Doing so still makes me an ally, heck I think it makes me even _more_ of an ally then wholesale agreement and acquiescence. If anyone uses “ally” to mean any variation of “think what I think, like what I like, hate what I hate” then they are using that word to refer to a concept that I don’t recognise as healthy and as such being told I wasn’t that kind of an “ally” holds no great concerns for me. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/327 "2023-02-23T10:27:08Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > If anyone uses “ally” to mean any variation of “think what I think, like what I like, hate what I hate” then they are using that word to refer to a concept that I don’t recognise as healthy and as such being told I wasn’t that kind of an “ally” holds no great concerns for me. …they use ally in the way Merriam-Webster defines it: > [@Merriam-Webster](#): > > —often now used specifically of a person who is not a member of a marginalized or mistreated group but who expresses or gives support to that group > **[Definition of ALLY](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ally)** > > to unite or form a connection or relation between : associate; to form or enter into an alliance… See the full definition ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/328 "2023-02-23T10:36:36Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …they use ally in the way Merriam-Webster defines it: My point, and my personal opinion, is that if someone levels the accusation “you aren’t an ally” when all you are doing is expressing some element of disagreement or divergence of opinion, then they are using “ally” in a way that is not recognisable to me and is ultimately unhelpful. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/329 "2023-02-23T10:40:22Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > My point, and my personal opinion, is that if someone levels the accusation “you aren’t an ally” when all you are doing is expressing some element of disagreement or divergence of opinion, then they are using “ally” in a way that is not recognisable to me and is ultimately unhelpful. …if they are levelling the accusation “you aren’t an ally” then all that means is that you’ve done something to make them question whether or not, in regards to their existence as a member of a marginalized group or mistreated group, you’ve got their back. Don’t take it personally. But if you are “expressing some element of disagreement or divergence of opinion” on matters that will impact their quality of life, don’t be surprised or upset if they tell you they don’t trust you. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/330 "2023-02-23T11:02:38Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …if they are levelling the accusation “you aren’t an ally” then all that means is that you’ve done something to make them question whether or not, in regards to their existence as a member of a marginalized group or mistreated group, you’ve got their back. And they could well be flat out wrong in that perception, as we all can be. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Don’t take it personally. But if you are “expressing some element of disagreement or divergence of opinion” on matters that will impact their quality of life, don’t be surprised or upset if they tell you they don’t trust you. I’m not in the least bit surprised by it but nor do I think it wise to agree with them for the sake of avoiding that upset or to avoid losing that trust. I think that is the _antithesis_ of being a true ally. You would then be supporting them on a course of action that you think will ultimately not help them. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/331 "2023-02-23T11:12:33Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > And they could well be flat out wrong in that perception, as we all can be. …it doesn’t really matter. Most members of marginalized and mistreated groups only have so much emotional energy to give. If you are unable to make it clear that you have their back, then they will do what they do. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I’m not in the least bit surprised by it but nor do I think it wise to agree with them for the sake of avoiding that upset or to avoid losing that trust. If the element of disagreement or divergence of opinion are on matters that will impact their quality of life, then it is wise to not trust you any more. Especially if you were to put your foot down and _insist_ that they weren’t being wise. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I think that is the _antithesis_ of being a true ally. Yeah, but the thing is, you don’t get to decide that. Because the _stakes_ are different. If the member of a marginalized group or mistreated group gets it wrong, the consequences could be bad, and in some cases, it could be _deadly_. And with more and more places putting forward legistlation that will impact the way that they live, if they decide not to trust you then…what are you gonna do? > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > You would then be supporting them on a course of action that you think will ultimately not help them. Can you give us an example? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/332 "2023-02-23T11:29:39Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > If the element of disagreement or divergence of opinion are on matters that will impact their quality of life, then it is wise to not trust you any more That’s an extremely bad piece of advice. You are assuming that the affected group are always correct in in all matters regarding what will actually be of most benefit to their quality of life. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Especially if you were to put your foot down and _insist_ that they weren’t being wise. If you truly care about the outcomes for people then you are not looking out for them by simply agreeing fully with their intended courses of action. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Yeah, but the thing is, you don’t get to decide that. Because the _stakes_ are different. If the member of a marginalized group or mistreated group gets it wrong, the consequences could be bad, and in some cases, it could be _deadly_ I definitely do get to decide what I consider to be a meaningful expression of allyship. And if the stakes truly are that high for at-risk groups then honesty and wise council are the very best expressions of being an ally. If the choice is between agreeing with an unwise course of action and so maintaining trust or disagreeing with that course of action and risk losing that trust, I’ll take the latter. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Can you give us an example? Pretty much any parent or spouse can think of dozens of such situations across the lifespan of those relationships. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/333 "2023-02-23T11:43:24Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > That’s an extremely bad piece of advice. …it isn’t advice. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > You are assuming that the affected group are always correct in in all matters regarding what will actually be of most benefit to their quality of life. They may or may not be correct. They have to make a judgement call. Do they say “goodbye” and never have to deal with you again, or do they persist on listening to you telling them over and over again things that, from experience, are unlikely to have a positive impact on their quality of life? It seems like an easy choice to me. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > If you truly care about the outcomes for people then you are not looking out for them by simply agreeing fully with their intended courses of action. If you truly cared about the outcomes for people then if you tell them to leave them alone, then you do. Its not as if we are talking about a drug intervention here. This really isn’t about _you_. But you are making it all about _you_. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I definitely do get to decide what I consider to be a meaningful expression of allyship. Again, no you _don’t_. That isn’t how trust works. You might be the most honest car-salesman on earth. But if I’ve had bad experiences with car-salesman before, and I tell you this upfront, but you keep insisting that "no, I’m not like all the other car-salesman, you can trust me! :: WINK :: " I still have no obligation nor requirement to trust you. I don’t have to give you my business. I can walk out of the shop and buy a car from somewhere else. That’s fine. That’s how society works. You don’t get to control if they trust you or not. You need to _earn_ their trust. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > If the choice is between agreeing with an unwise course of action and so maintaining trust or disagreeing with that course of action and risk losing that trust, I’ll take the latter. What sort of unwise course of action did you have in mind? > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Pretty much any parent or spouse can think of dozens of such situations across the lifespan of those relationships. Can you share _one_ of them here? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/334 "2023-02-23T13:06:55Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …it isn’t advice. whether it is advice, statement of fact, opinion, my comment stands > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > If you truly cared about the outcomes for people then if you tell them to leave them alone, then you do Assuming what you mean is “if they tell you to leave them alone” I disagree, that is bad general advice as well. There are times when that is the right thing to do and times when it is the wrong thing to do. (If your original wording is correct then I don’t understand the sentence) > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Again, no you _don’t_. Of course I do, I just did, so did you. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > You need to _earn_ their trust. The people I truly trust are the ones who have shown themselves to be overall reliably honest, wise and supportive. Who may have disagreed with me and told me I’m wrong and offered demonstrably better ways of living and thinking. Agreeing with me is not a prerequisite for trust. Honesty and reliability certainly is. Automatically agreeing with someone when you are certain that they are taking a harmful course of action is not a basis for maintaining trust in the long run. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > What sort of unwise course of action did you have in mind? Have you ever offered advice on the course of action that a family member or a close friend was about to take? Was that advice simply an agreement with their course actions or an offer of alternatives? People take bad decisions all the time. True friends and allies don’t simply nod along to every one of those bad decisions. I have every confidence that anyone reading the above will have no problem substituting a specific personal example that makes sense to them. If you are truly unable to think of any such examples then I am astonished and don’t really know how to respond to that. I am wary of giving an anecdotal example that would almost certainly then become the focus of a further hijack. That isn’t what interests me, I am talking about the nature of what I consider being an “ally” truly entails. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/335 "2023-02-23T13:39:35Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > whether it is advice, statement of fact, opinion, my comment stands …so you think its an “extremely bad piece statement of fact?” It either is a statement of fact or it isn’t. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > There are times when that is the right thing to do and times when it is the wrong thing to do. Can you give us an example? > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Of course I do, I just did, so did you. Nope. It doesn’t matter how good of an ally you consider yourself to be. In only matters if somebody else thinks you are or your aren’t. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > The people I truly trust are the ones who have shown themselves to be overall reliably honest, wise and supportive. Yeah, but this isn’t about you. We all have different trust thresholds. I get to decide if I trust you or not. You know trust is a subjective thing, right? Sometimes its just better to be safe than sorry? Sometimes you trust someone because they are overall reliably honest, wise and supportive. But sometimes people who _think_ they are overall reliably honest, wise and supportive turn out to be not that reliably honest, not that wise, and not that supportive. It isn’t about you. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Automatically agreeing with someone when you are certain that they are taking a harmful course of action is not a basis for maintaining trust in the long run. Who said anything about automatically agreeing? And can you give us an example of what kind of harmful course of action you are talking about? > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Have you ever offered advice on the course of action that a family member or a close friend was about to take? > Was that advice simply an agreement with their course actions or an offer of alternatives? So you can’t give us an example? > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > People take bad decisions all the time. True friends and allies don’t simply nod along to every one of those bad decisions. In the context of this thread, what sort of decisions do you mean? > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I have every confidence that anyone reading the above will have no problem substituting a specific personal example that makes sense to them. If you are truly unable to think of any such examples then I am astonished and don’t really know how to respond to that. I’m looking for a personal example that relates to this topic. The sort of advice you might be offering to a trans person that might make them decide that they don’t trust you. What sort of advice would you be offering to a trans person that they would be foolish to disagree with you about? > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I am wary of giving an anecdotal example that would almost certainly then become the focus of a further hijack. In this particular case I don’t know how we can avoid examples. Because we are talking about the reasons why marginalised people shouldn’t exercise their right to not consider someone an ally. There would have to be a pretty good reason to do that. Not in the current climate. Not when the stakes are so _high_. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > That isn’t what interests me, I am talking about the nature of what I consider being an “ally” truly entails. In context, an ally is: > [@Merriam-Webster](#): > > —often now used specifically of a person who is not a member of a marginalized or mistreated group but who expresses or gives support to that group That’s what it means here. It doesn’t mean “automatically agreeing with everything you say.” People aren’t obligated to accept you as an ally. They can choose not to trust you and that’s okay. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/336 "2023-02-23T14:03:21Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Please view the video in the OP. So, i just started it, but it’s really long. (26 minutes) And so far it’s mostly been demonstrating that Rowling is transphobic. I don’t need to watch that part. Where does it shift to the part you want to talk about? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/337 "2023-02-23T14:04:42Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > if they decide not to trust you then…what are you gonna do? Indeed it’s their call. But does it mean **everyone** is literally one word away from: > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > say “goodbye” and never have to deal with you again and is the only other alternative, to > [@](#): > > persist on listening to you telling them over and over again things that, from experience, are unlikely to have a positive impact on their quality of life? ISTM that part of it IS indeed the, perhaps mis-, perception that the only worthy place to be for a person is in the full, unadulterated, no question about it, “ally” bracket. Perhaps those of us on the outside of the existential stake indeed do need to get over it. So what if I’m not a capital-A Ally by that standard. Does not make me a bad person, does not make me an enemy, does not make me stop being supportive if allowed to give support under a principle of cooperation on common interests rather than on whether I’d take a bullet for you (whoever are the specific scenario’s “you”). And if that is still unacceptable for that “you” and still puts me in the “never deal with then again” box, that still does not stop me from outside work that supports common goals on specific matters. I understand: there is people for whom it IS “all or nothing”. But that does not make me then say, fine, then “nothing” it is. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/338 "2023-02-23T14:07:37Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > The people I truly trust are the ones who have shown themselves to be overall reliably honest, wise and supportive. We are not talking about trusted dear friends here, we are talking about who is an ally to a marginalized group. That’s a specific use of the word ally. Just like a nation fighting with your nation in a war is a specific use of the word ally. If you don’t have their back on the specific thing that makes them part of a marginalized group, you aren’t an ally, for the meaning of “ally” under discussion. That meaning is well known and well understood, and the fact that there are other meanings of the word “ally” is really irrelevant, and a distraction from the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/339 "2023-02-23T14:13:56Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > If I think they are wrong about the end result they seek, the methods they use to get there or if they have flaws in their thinking or they behave badly or refuse to listen to others, I’ll say so. What if your view of the situation is wrong? If you have flaws in your thinking? Who will be the arbiter? Do you think someone who always gives bad advice, even if earnest, is an ally? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2023, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/340 "2023-02-23T14:24:20Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > But does it mean **everyone** is literally one word away from: > [@JRDelirious](#): > > > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > > > say “goodbye” and never have to deal with you again > > and is the only other alternative, to > > > [@](#): > > > > persist on listening to you telling them over and over again things that, from experience, are unlikely to have a positive impact on their quality of life? …in the context of this thread we are talking about the Twitch Streamer with an audience of hundreds of thousands who is educated enough to know why trans people don’t want them to play the game but decides to do that anyway. When in a few months time that streamer also decides to fly the pride flag, should a trans person consider them an ally? It depends on the person. There isn’t a single answer here. What you quoted was specific to the post I was responding to, nothing more. This is entirely subjective. And for most people that means that no, you _aren’t_ literally one word away from saying goodbye and never having to deal with you again. Well actually, on reflection, there _are_ a few words that if someone said them I wouldn’t give them the time of day. The most extreme racial/misogynist/transphobic slurs for example. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721.md?page=18)