# Should people avoid consuming art they enjoy from an artist who they dislike or disagree with on a personal level? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 13, 2023, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721 "2023-02-13T17:17:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/381 "2023-02-24T15:52:21Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > That is just not the same thing at all. Reads as very much the same thing to me. Why do you think it isn’t? > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > that is taken from my full initial post where I make it clear that I’m talking about my “ally” relationship with my family. That’s not what the sense of “ally” being discussed in this thread means. You are part of your family. It’s not a group that you’re not a member of. There are many words in English that have different meanings depending on the context. If people are discussing what dogs (canines) should and shouldn’t eat, it’s entirely irrelevant to point out that chocolate does no harm to fireplace andirons or to untrustworthy humans. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > > If I treated a mentally competent adult that way, I would no way in hell be an ally. > > I agree with that as well, but you can treat them differently, as a fully competent adult, disagree with them and advise them and still remain (what I consider to be) a true ally. If you’re insisting on giving unwanted advice to someone, I don’t think you are treating them as a competent adult. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/382 "2023-02-24T15:54:31Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > If you’re insisting on giving unwanted advice to someone, I don’t think you are treating them as a competent adult. Yup. Someone that persists in giving me unwanted advice is showing me a fundamental lack of respect, and their worldview is sufficiently different from mine that their advice is suspect as shit. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/383 "2023-02-24T16:22:30Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > That’s not what the sense of “ally” being discussed in this thread means. I was giving _my_ definition of what a meaningful “ally” relationship looks like to me. If that is not of interest to you then feel free to ignore it. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > If you’re insisting on giving unwanted advice to someone, I don’t think you are treating them as a competent adult. There are times in my adult life when I haven’t wanted advice but people who care about my welfare have done so nonetheless. I am hugely grateful they did so and prevented me for taking the wrong path. If that had been done to me in _every_ situation then I agree, they would not be treating me as a competent adult. But part of being a competent adult is both an acceptance that you may need to listen to good advice that you didn’t ask for and also that you need to judge when to intervene and offer it. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/384 "2023-02-24T16:25:46Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > There are times in my adult life when I haven’t wanted advice but people who care about my welfare have done so nonetheless. > > I am hugely grateful they did so and prevented me for taking the wrong path. Were they people who knew you well and genuinely understood your actual situation? If not, that is absolutely irrelevant to this thread, which is about advice being given by people who are outside the group to which they’re giving it. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/385 "2023-02-24T16:32:02Z")
What I said was relevant to my initial point and relevant to the point I was initially responding to. If irrelevant stuff hijacking a thread is of concern to you then perhaps just ignore what I said. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/386 "2023-02-24T16:37:40Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > If you’re insisting on giving unwanted advice to someone, I don’t think you are treating them as a competent adult. But doesn’t this also apply in the opposite direction? “You should boycott this if you want to be an ally” is unsolicited advice that is also emotionally coercive. It implies that a grown adult needs to be told what to do in order to be a virtuous person; they can’t possibly judge for themselves what makes the bigger impact on a cause. That’s how you get scenarios where a person who donates hundred of dollars to a particular special interest group is suddenly being told they aren’t an ally merely because they purchased something. Not likely to go over well, is it. Prioritizing symbolic gestures of support over strategic actions is not how winning occurs. The Montgomery Bus boycotts was one of the most successful boycotts in American history. Imagine how effective activists would’ve been if their energies had been spent on publicly shaming the people who continued to ride the bus rather than helping people find alternative ways of getting around. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/387 "2023-02-24T17:00:51Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > publicly shaming the people who continued to ride the bus Let’s be very clear, this is telling people who want credit for “enthusiastically supporting your fight for equal rights” that continuing to take the bus is making that support seem pretty hollow. People “on your side” are giving aid and comfort to the people who hate you and want you to disappear. Go ahead and ride the bus, just don’t ask for hugs and kisses from the people who are boycotting the bus. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/388 "2023-02-24T17:10:07Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Go ahead and ride the bus, just don’t ask for hugs and kisses from the people who are boycotting the bus. I’m sure the people in Montgomery who took the bus did so knowing full well it wouldn’t engender admiration from the boycotters. Most adults can figure this out on their own, which is why it tends to be poorly received when stated in a unsolicited manner. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/389 "2023-02-24T17:17:06Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Let’s be very clear, this is telling people who want credit for “enthusiastically supporting your fight for equal rights” that continuing to take the bus is making that support seem pretty hollow. And I’m saying this is bad messaging. A lot of people (white and black) who continued to take the bus did so because they made their livelihoods on the other side of town. They couldn’t find alternative ways of getting to where they needed to keep food on the table. To infer their level of support from just this one act would be very wrong. The Montgomery boycott was an amazing feat precisely because it was extremely difficult for working class people to abstain from this mode of transportation. Those who managed to do so deserve so much praise, but that doesn’t mean those who could not deserve scorn. Btw, I honestly don’t understand why so much focus is on boycotting HL but not Twitter. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/390 "2023-02-24T17:26:04Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > Most adults can figure this out on their own, which is why it tends to be poorly received when stated in a unsolicited manner. I’m sorry, I must have missed something. When did this youtuber come to your house and give you unsolicited advice? I thought this was about remarks they made in a video that you chose to watch. > [@YWTF](#): > > Those who managed to do so deserve so much praise, but that doesn’t mean those who could not deserve scorn. Who said that anyone deserves scorn? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/391 "2023-02-24T17:36:43Z")
The Harry Potter boycott was an amazing feat precisely because it was extremely difficult for working class people to abstain from buying this particular video game, or that particular movie, or tickets to Universal Orlando. Those who managed to do so deserve praise, but that doesn’t mean those who could not deserve scorn. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/392 "2023-02-24T17:46:32Z")
I’m not sure if you think I disagree with this, but I don’t (except I believe the boycott is actually backfiring and therefore it’s not an “amazing feat”). In todays world, the vast majority of gamers do find it difficult to abstain from this game. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/393 "2023-02-24T17:49:00Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > In todays world, the vast majority of gamers do find it difficult to abstain from this game. And what if it’s a game that is based on their fond childhood memories of wizards and magic, that gives them the hits of nostalgia they crave? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/394 "2023-02-24T17:53:48Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > In todays world, the vast majority of gamers do find it difficult to abstain from this game. That’s an interesting declaration. What’s your support for it? ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/395 "2023-02-24T18:08:25Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That’s an interesting declaration. What’s your support for it? The fact that it’s commercially successful. It hasn’t tanked, it hasn’t bombed. It is doing well in sales despite all efforts to stop people from buying the thing. As I mentioned earlier, the game has broken records. > **[‘Hogwarts Legacy’ Earns $850 Million, Sells More Than 12 Million Units in...](https://variety.com/2023/gaming/news/hogwarts-legacy-sales-850-million-1235533614/)** > > "Hogwarts Legacy" has wingardium leviosa-ed Warner Bros. Games' sales, earning $850 million in global sales and moving more than 12 million units. If I’m supposed to believe it’s easy for gamers to abstain from this product, I haven’t see evidence to support that. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/396 "2023-02-24T18:17:18Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Much like accusations that the game is about upholding slavery (it… uhhh… is not). I don’t know about the game, but that bothered me about the books the first time i read them. I mean, it’s not “about upholding slavery”, but it’s awfully slavery-friendly, and i didn’t get the sense that bothered the author. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/397 "2023-02-24T18:21:40Z")
The antisemitism didn’t bother me, though. My daughter claims it’s worse in the game, but i haven’t looked into it beyond a dinner table discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/398 "2023-02-24T18:22:01Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > The Montgomery Bus boycotts was one of the most successful boycotts in American history. Imagine how effective activists would’ve been if their energies had been spent on publicly shaming the people who continued to ride the bus rather than helping people find alternative ways of getting around. Or what if the boycott leaders had threatened to publicly shame ministers who didn’t support the boycott? Because [that’s what they did](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montgomery_bus_boycott). > [@](#): > > At a subsequent, larger meeting of ministers, Nixon’s agenda was threatened by the clergymen’s reluctance to support the campaign. Nixon was indignant, pointing out that their poor congregations worked to put money into the collection plates so these ministers could live well, and when those congregations needed the clergy to stand up for them, those comfortable ministers refused to do so. **Nixon threatened to reveal the ministers’ cowardice to the black community,** and King spoke up, denying he was afraid to support the boycott. King agreed to lead the MIA, and Nixon was elected its treasurer. (emphasis added) Or are we talking about putting pressure on people not to ride the bus? [Listen to one of the activists who organized the boycott](http://digital.wustl.edu/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=eop;cc=eop;rgn=main;view=text;idno=gil0015.0383.041): > [@](#): > > WAS THERE PRESSURE ON THE MAIDS TO NOT RIDE THE BUS, I MEAN NOT RIDE THE CARPOOL TO GET… > > Georgia Gilmore: > On some there were, but then they did, disregarded it. Public shaming–or the threat thereof–was absolutely a part of the Montgomery Bus Boycott. Certainly it wasn’t the primary tactic, but it was there, alongside the positive support mechanisms. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/399 "2023-02-24T18:22:39Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > If I’m supposed to believe it’s easy for gamers to abstain from this product, I haven’t see evidence to support that. Uh, lots of things are easy to abstain from, but people choose not to, for whatever reason. I imagine it’s pretty easy for most people to abstain from this game. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2023, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721/400 "2023-02-24T18:23:37Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > If I’m supposed to believe it’s easy for gamers to abstain from this product, I haven’t see evidence to support that. I get that this is GD and all, but do we actually need “evidence” that it’s easy to not buy a video game? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-avoid-consuming-art-they-enjoy-from-an-artist-who-they-dislike-or-disagree-with-on-a-personal-level/979721.md?page=21)