This is just like any other body modification. Do it for the wrong reasons for you and you’ll end up unhappy with the results. If it’s something you really want, and you get the results you want then I don’t see any reason to stand in your way.
That wasn’t exclusively what I was talking about, either. The same kind of American Blacks who in the past would hold paper bag parties are also the kind of Blacks who are going to discriminate based on nose shape and hair texture. Especially since even a lighter-skin Tanzanian is likely to still only be the same tone as the average African American. He’s not getting Michael Jackson-level bleaching without Michael Jackson-level income, I’m betting.
I’m not American, but from my own experiences, colourists pay attention to a lot more than just skin tone. He might think it would work, but I doubt it will.
Well, look at Sammy Sosa or Lil Kim. No one would say they look better with skin lightening. They may feel better about themselves, but when you look at them, I don’t know how to put it delicately beyond saying that it didn’t work. Sure they’re lighter, but no amount of lightening will give you the complexion of a white person. They look like they slipped into a vat of Ambi cream.
And of course, it doesn’t just end at changing your skin tone. What about hair texture or bone structure? Lil Kim has had a lot of work done. She doesn’t look like a white woman (if that was her goal). She looks like a woman who’s had way too much done to her face and will be the next client on Botched. Sammy Sosa looks as if he’s in a perpetual state of being scared by a ghost.
I mean, I’m not sure how legit the OP is, but his friend definitely needs some help learning to accept himself. I’m only a year older than the OP’s friend, and it’s still a process. I think it’s always a process when you live in a society that tries its damnedest to diminish you. The world will not see us as anything else no matter how hard you work to change. And now I have TLC’s “Unpretty” stuck in my head.
Actually, either extensive vitiligo (which you usually get for free, because who the hell would pay for that?) or monobenzone bath would do it. Don’t think you need to be filthy rich for the latter, but you do have to convince a doctor to write you a prescription for it.
Depends on the bigot, but to a large extent you’re correct.
That’s what you need to be filthy rich for, is what I meant. There’s lots of different chemicals that can either bleach or depigment the skin. But the medically-safe and effective ones, you’re only getting with a prescriptions, which would require medical need. Unless you have a pet doctor/s, like MJ.
And it leaves you looking like MJ, which is not going to spare you discrimination…
MJ actually did have extensive vitiligo, which is a considered a legitimate reason to use those chemicals. He may not have had to “buy” a doctor for that. He did have to buy one for anesthesia used as a sleep aid.
The alternative for the less than fantastically wealthy is to go to a country where such things are much more readily available than in Europe or North America.
I think everyone knows MJ had vitiligo. The issue isn’t having vitiligo and undergoing skin lightening treatments for vitiligo, but that lightening your skin (using those methods) won’t help you look light enough to pass as not-black. If someone wanted the same treatments to lighten their skin, I agree with MrDibble, it won’t spare you any discrimination.
I disagree. My experience with colorstruck black people is that people who are really “stricken” have a hierarchy with a kabillion different categories. Damn-near-white is at the top. Blue black is at the bottom. But there’s a huge gradient in the middle. Someone who perceives themselves to be at the bottom of the hierarchy will grab whatever they can to rise.
My dad used to be very colorstruck. I seriously believe that if my mother had been just a shade darker, he wouldn’t have noticed her. For him, “damn near white” and “high yellow with “good” hair” were ideals.
For someone not as colorstruck but still stricken, they may “settle” for someone with medium brown skin but with “good” hair. Or a reddish individual with “bad” hair. In other words, they’ll take whatever he or she can get as long as it is not “black black”. Any hint at admixture is enough for them to jump on that.
Back to the dude in the OP. We don’t know who he is trying to appeal to. If he’s trying to spare himself from discrimination from whites, I agree that he’s wasting his time. But if he’s trying to spare himself from discrimination from black people, then his decision might be more reasonable (though still sad). Especially if in the circles he travels, everyone is black black. In such a situation, lightening one’s skin just a couple of shades is sufficient enough to stand out as a “stand out”.
Black Americans have plenty tales of woe about lighter skinned siblings being treated better than darker skinned ones. I have nieces who I suspect have gotten this treament (not from their parents, but from their Haitian relatives). Malcolm X had this experience, though from the side of the “favored” one. I don’t know what the dude in the OP has gone through in his life, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he had similar experiences in his own family. This world can really mess up a person.
I just want to add that skin lightening, in India, can literally mean the difference between getting a marriage proposal and not, especially in poorer homes when there’s not a lot of money for dowry*. If the receiving family is not just money-hungry, they may figure a beautiful (meaning light skinned) bride is just as good as a rich bride.
*Technically illegal but still kind of prominent. My family tells me it often is known as “gifts” now.
i mean, I agree? Of course I’ve faced colorism and I’m sure I’ve given it, too. If the OP comes back and says that his friend wants to fit in better with black people, then this conversation takes a different turn. But I feel more black people would preach acceptance and love before change in this case (but ultimately “you do you” with plenty of side eye). If it’s to fit in with white people, I just don’t see how this would help him either. I just don’t see where this would help him lessen any discrimination.
I get wanting to be lighter, wanting the jokes to stop because you got particularly dark one summer, wondering if it’s your brown skin or something else that people dislike about you. I’m sure you have family members that see the light relatives as bougie while dark relatives are considered stuck up. I have them, too. I’m probably as dark as Serena Williams and I have “good” hair. It’s maddening how stupid it is. So I hope for the OP’s friend’s sake he doesn’t have to deal with that. In fact, one of my dad’s cousins had vitiligo (she died 8-10 years ago). No one wanted her struggle just to have lighter skin.
Black folks can be funny, though. I have a very Afrocentric mother. She talks a good game about everything and everyone black. But don’t let her see my edges curl up in humid weather. She’d be looking for a hot comb. This is a woman who wore locks for 20 years while forcing me to relax my hair. I guess what I’m saying is that people can preach something totally different from how they feel and act.
Also, I think black Americans are more politically sensitive to this topic. You aren’t going to find television commericals for skin lightening products in the US. We wouldn’t tolerate that mess because it would just scream “racist”. But that doesn’t mean there would be no market for such a product. It would just be a “secret” one.
As a group, GP’s tend to the “medical” view of interventions: if it’s not medically justified, they think it’s wrong to mess with it. They also (as is common) place a high value on things that they do (medical interventions), and a low value on things they don’t do (cosmetic interventions).
I’m not willing to generalize about the argument “treat me or I’ll hurt myself with self-medication”, I don’t know how most people would react to that.?
There is a market - there are OTC products available that are called “toners” and “balancers” and “fade” but are, really, intended as skin lightening products. The brand name Ambi contains 2% hydroquinolone (if I spelled it correctly) and is available at most big box stores.
I saw a commercial for some skin lightening cream like a week ago. There was a white woman in it and it was for getting rid of dark spots. Essentially Ambi cream but it was Dove or a brand similar to that. They definitely wouldn’t have gotten away with that with a darker skinned woman.
My mom was all about relaxing my hair to make it easier to manage. I still wince whenever I see a hot comb. My big chop a few years ago was quite the liberating experience. I wanted my niece (she’s mixed) to see someone perfectly comfortable with their natural, curly hair, but that’s all gone to shit now that her mother let her be straightened. My niece likes it, so that makes me happy, but I wonder if she only agreed so she could have hair like her mother and older half-sister.
To the OP; yes , they should accept themselves and the aim of Medicine should be self acceptance.
Can you give a reason why??
If a scientist comes up with skin lightening in 20yrs that is safe would you be okay with it?
Not to go off topic but I’ve wondered why black men can’t even wear wigs. Its like the black community thinks men with hair longer than 2cm is unkempt. :smack:
AIUI, the criterion is 50%+ coverage, are you saying his was that extensive?
ETA - Not arguing, there, just curious
It would be impossible to say how much, if any, of Michael Jackson’s “vitiligo” was from the autoimmune disorder and how much was splotchy skin color loss from bleaching.
Given his plastic surgeries, it seems reasonable that his efforts to alter his appearance were substantial, and skewed in the direction of european-type features, so I’d bet on botched skin lightening. Not to mention that he adopted children who skewed toward caucasian ancestry, feature-wise.
As to lightening skin in general, it seems that many light-skinned groups wish they were darker, and many dark-skinned groups wish they were lighter.
And we all wish we were smarter and richer, not to mention larger-breasted and thinner-wasted.
Hail to plastic surgery!