# Should people only be allowed to purchase ingredients with food stamps? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 6, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410 "2010-08-06T16:08:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/421 "2010-08-14T22:12:03Z")
I wonder how **Magiver** would feel about the program allowing necessities like diapers, toilet paper, menstrual products, etc. And you know, even for those who HAVE microwaves and stoves, sometimes you don’t have TIME to cook. Hell, I have a brand new stove – I’m making myself some pasta right now – but some days you’re so pressed for time all you can do is throw a Lean Cuisine in the microwave. And they were absolutely perfect for work, too. If you have someone who works long hours, like **starwarsfreek42** , AND they have kids, they’re not always going to have TIME to cook from raw ingredients, like the OP suggested. And then **monstro** had another good point: you don’t neccessarily get healthy food cooking from scratch. You should how my aunt and uncle eat! He makes homemade french fries everyday – from plain old ordinary potatos and cooking oil. All of their food is grease and fat and salt. So they’d probably be much better off buying those Past-A-Roni bags. And I’m still curious – in towns on the coast where there’s lobster fishing – how expensive IS lobster there? So I imagine the price of certain healthy stuff depends on the season, the time of year – fruits and vegetables, certainly! And everyone has different dietary needs – kids, adults, the elderly, people with allergies, diabetics (and not ALL diabetics are fat!), etc. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/422 "2010-08-14T22:15:23Z")
> [@norinew](#): > > I didn’t know about the potatoes, though. I’ll definitely keep it in mind for the future! I do suggest people call and _ask_ what a shelter or soup kitchen needs - sometimes you can really do some good that way. And sometimes what’s needed isn’t so much food (though that’s important) as things like soap and toothpaste and deodorant and shampoo, which for some reason are often overlooked. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/423 "2010-08-14T23:03:09Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > > [@norinew](#): > > > > I didn’t know about the potatoes, though. I’ll definitely keep it in mind for the future! > > I do suggest people call and _ask_ what a shelter or soup kitchen needs - sometimes you can really do some good that way. And sometimes what’s needed isn’t so much food (though that’s important) as things like soap and toothpaste and deodorant and shampoo, which for some reason are often overlooked. > > [/hijack] We spend probably ten or so nights a year in hotels. When we do, I always take our preferred shampoo/conditioner with us, but I always take the ‘complimentary’ products from the hotel room. I usually donate them to a shelter for abused women rather than a homeless shelter, though. ---
**Author:** ![starwarsfreek42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@starwarsfreek42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/starwarsfreek42)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/424 "2010-08-15T01:11:31Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > So they wouldn’t be affected in any way by what I’ve proposed. And I call bullshit on the used grill. [You can buy them new for $10.](http://www.kotulas.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10051&storeId=10001&productId=20690&langId=-1&cm_ven=CSE&cm_cat=Shopzilla&cm_pla=Category&cm_ite=209885) Ok, assuming they can acquire a grill, who buys the wood and/or charcoal that they will need a lot of if they are to eat every day? Who is going to stand outside and cook over this grill all day, the mom? In the middle of winter when it’s 10 degrees outside? I’m sure they’ll appreciate your wisdom. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/425 "2010-08-15T01:33:28Z")
> [@norinew](#): > > > [@Broomstick](#): > > > > I do suggest people call and _ask_ what a shelter or soup kitchen needs - sometimes you can really do some good that way. And sometimes what’s needed isn’t so much food (though that’s important) as things like soap and toothpaste and deodorant and shampoo, which for some reason are often overlooked. > > > > [/hijack] > > We spend probably ten or so nights a year in hotels. When we do, I always take our preferred shampoo/conditioner with us, but I always take the ‘complimentary’ products from the hotel room. I usually donate them to a shelter for abused women rather than a homeless shelter, though. Homeless shelter, woman’s shelter, food pantry, place for runaway teens, soup kitchen… it doesn’t really matter what you call it, does it? It’s a good thing you do. ---
**Author:** ![misterW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@misterW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misterW)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/426 "2010-08-15T01:39:34Z")
> [@starwarsfreek42](#): > > Bolding mine again. That is clearly and undeniably what you said, go back and read it. If you meant something else then maybe you should have said something else. Yes, it is what I said, and yes, the wording was misleading and I should have been more clear. I have already stated this and explained what I really meant. Why don’t you address that instead of going back to this? > [@](#): > > Thank Gawd you’re here, because those of us with no common sense like me would never have figured out how to pair eggs with beans without putting them together. Wasn’t that you who was complaining that your kids wouldn’t eat a nasty bowl of beans, eggs, and peas? That seemed to me like you thought that you should just mix all the ingredients together. If that wasn’t what you thought, what was the point you were making? > [@](#): > > Look, I get up every morning and go to college so that maybe one day I won’t live in this shithole neighborhood in this shithole house, constantly worrying about when I can have the leaky roof fixed and whether or not I can afford my medication this month. Then I go to work in a big factory where it’s 35 degrees and I’m wearing steel toed boots on a concrete and steel floor for 9 hours a night. I get home around midnight, and I dare some motherfucker to tell me that I have then got to stand on my feet in the kitchen and fucking cook something to eat every night. I dare somebody to come in here and tell me that I can’t have a glass of wine or a box of cookies over the weekend. That I can’t take some pre-packaged tuna salad to work for lunch. This isn’t about saving money it’s about making poor people miserable, because you all think they should be. It would be easier and more honest if you’d just admit it. I myself am in a pretty tenuous financial state now, hence my experimentation with eating as cheaply as possible while maintaining nutritious meals. As such, it wouldn’t make much sense for me to have the agenda of making poor people miserable. How you want to do things is up to you. When things get tight I tend to pretty much cut out all the nonessentials, but whatever works for you. I will say buying a crockpot saved me a ton of cooking time in the kitchen and they can be easily gotten for around 20$ – check out amazon. It would be hard to imagine going the cheap ingredient route without one for me. > [@](#): > > Also you have failed to answer my original question: HOW DO PEOPLE WITH NO ELECTRICITY COOK A POT OF BEANS? I am still waiting. A grill is not a valid answer, because obviously if they can’t afford lights they can’t afford to buy a grill. Actually, I did respond to that. Take a look at my post again. Obviously if you have no electricity or no arms or some other issue, you can’t cook the beans. This is what makes blanket regulations on food items difficult. That being said, I think there are a lot of people out there who have both electricity and arms and simply lack the information/motivation to make better food choices. ---
**Author:** ![starwarsfreek42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@starwarsfreek42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/starwarsfreek42)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/427 "2010-08-15T02:01:29Z")
**misterW** , I’m not going to do this back-and-forth nesting quotes thing. I’m not taking a look at your post again, because I don’t care anymore. I think a lot of people out there have electricity and arms too, and lack the motivation to cook, but you know what? That is their choice. My nutrition is my problem and not yours, and if I spend a hundred dollars in beans or a hundred dollars in Cheetos neither option makes any difference to the tax payers, the deficit, or in fact anyone or anything else other than me. I’ll just crawl back into the woodwork now, before I flame out on you all and get myself banned. Cheers, Dopers. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/428 "2010-08-15T02:28:49Z")
Don’t need to cook them at all. Mix cold beans and rice in a bowl and eat them. Heat is a waste for the poor. They can drink water as long as it is not bottled. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/429 "2010-08-15T03:54:20Z")
It appears the government thinks food stamps should not only be used to buy junk food but teachers’ votes as well. [Cite](http://www.mybanktracker.com/bank-news/2010/08/12/teachers-happy-poor/) [Cite](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/08/10/democrats-advocacy-groups-blast-cuts-food-stamps-fund-m-jobs/) > [@](#): > > The $26 billion in aid is expected to come from the closure of a tax loophole used by corporations across the nation and also by cutting down on food stamp benefits for the underprivileged. **The average New York City family on federal aid would see its monthly food stamp allotment drop to $230 from $290.** [bolding mine] People don’t get that much in food stamps to begin with. A woman of my acquaintance has a sister who is a big-time drug addict. She has no car, no job and no visible source of income. She qualifies for the maximum food stamp benefit, which, for a single person with no assets and no income, is around $200 per month - or roughly the equivalent of one Value Meal per day at McDonalds. Now the Congress and President Obama, terrified of the fall elections, have decided to buy the support of teachers’ unions and the votes of teachers themselves by taking away some of the already meager assistance people on food stamps receive and applying it instead to benefit teachers and their unions. So now, in the case of the New York family of four mentioned above, their government-supplied food-buying assistance will drop from $2.41 per person per day to $1.92 per person per day, which, although it can’t actually be used to buy food at McDonalds, wouldn’t buy a small bag of fries and a drink even if it could. Now, I have no problem with the idea of the government finding some way to get teachers through tough times and on the job, but to use food stamps to accomplish it? WTF? This is exactly the kind of thing that makes those of us who oppose the idea of government-financed single-payer health care hate the idea of it. The government simply can’t be trusted to do what’s right. It will unhesitatingly shaft its beneficiaries in order to benefit itself should prevailing political winds so dictate. And while we’re on the subject, do members of state and federal bureaucracies ever get laid off? If so I don’t recall hearing of it. And unless my Google-fu is unusually weak there isn’t much of an answer there either. Companies like Microsoft, Hewlett-Packard, GM or whoever lay off workers when times get tough, but somehow one never hears of state or federal bureaucrats getting laid off. It’s always teachers, cops and firefighters. Why is that, I facetiously wonder. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/430 "2010-08-15T04:32:37Z")
> [@starwarsfreek42](#): > > > [@Magiver](#): > > > > So they wouldn’t be affected in any way by what I’ve proposed. And I call bullshit on the used grill. [You can buy them new for $10.](http://www.kotulas.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10051&storeId=10001&productId=20690&langId=-1&cm_ven=CSE&cm_cat=Shopzilla&cm_pla=Category&cm_ite=209885) > > Ok, assuming they can acquire a grill, who buys the wood and/or charcoal that they will need a lot of if they are to eat every day? Who is going to stand outside and cook over this grill all day, the mom? In the middle of winter when it’s 10 degrees outside? I’m sure they’ll appreciate your wisdom. I constantly pick up wood for me and my friends to burn. People who have tree’s cut down appreciate it when someone hauls it away for free. If someone is using a kerosene heater in the winter (due to lack of electricity) then I would use that as a heat source for potted meals instead of eating soup cold out of the can as was given as an example. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/431 "2010-08-15T04:39:28Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > And I actually CAN think of a time when expensive/luxury items should be allowed - when there are clearance sales, for example, so a cut of meat is greatly reduced in price ( **well, your per-pound limit might well take care of that issue** ). . Wow, somebody actually read what I wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Bean\_Wrangler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9de053/32.png) [@Bean\_Wrangler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bean_Wrangler)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/432 "2010-08-15T05:08:49Z")
If we allow food stamps to buy ingredients, I am for it. Finally I can use food stamps to buy White Castles! > **[White Castle](https://www.whitecastle.com/crave-central/recipes)** > > In 1921, it all started out so innocently. A five-cent small hamburger. A Castle-shaped restaurant. And nothing like it before, or since. A humble 100% beef patty with onions, and a pickle. So easy to eat, it was dubbed the Slider. The only thing... Hmm… Unless that isn’t the exception mushroom soup is. It takes fewer ingredients and less time to prepare, so that would mean it’s more “wholesome”… Is butter allowed as an ingredient? After all, put some butter on bread and your eating it like a food… It’s really just processed milk, not any different than the chicken noodle soup… Yea, I don’t think the labeling can be done, unless we want the guidance of industry experts. Unfortunately the “Big Pea Industry” isn’t as powerful as Nabisco, so that takes away peas as an ingredient ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/433 "2010-08-15T05:17:04Z")
Yeah – chocolate chips are an ingredient. So’s Crisco, cooking oil, eggs, etc. Hey, are people allowed to buy bacon? I think we’ve pretty much established that no matter what restrictions, you really can’t force people to eat healthy. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/434 "2010-08-15T05:48:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I constantly pick up wood for me and my friends to burn. People who have tree’s cut down appreciate it when someone hauls it away for free. It’s pretty tough to haul wood without a car. Not that there are tons of people with trees scraps in the inner city. We could do this all night. The truth is, as usual, somewhere in the middle. Yes, there are ways to eat nutritiously even on the street. But no, it’s not easy and it’s not reasonable to expect that to be everyone’s top priority. ---
**Author:** ![starwarsfreek42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@starwarsfreek42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/starwarsfreek42)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/435 "2010-08-15T06:05:40Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I constantly pick up wood for me and my friends to burn. People who have **tree’s** cut down appreciate it when someone hauls it away for free. > > If someone is using a kerosene heater in the winter (due to lack of electricity) then I would use that as a heat source for potted meals instead of eating soup cold out of the can as was given as an example. That apostrophe is completely unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/436 "2010-08-15T12:26:34Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > The $26 billion in aid is expected to come from the closure of a tax loophole used by corporations across the nation and also by cutting down on food stamp benefits for the underprivileged. **The average New York City family on federal aid would see its monthly food stamp allotment drop to $230 from $290.** > > [bolding mine] > > People don’t get that much in food stamps to begin with. A woman of my acquaintance has a sister who is a big-time drug addict. She has no car, no job and no visible source of income. She qualifies for the maximum food stamp benefit, which, for a single person with no assets and no income, is around $200 per month - or roughly the equivalent of one Value Meal per day at McDonalds. OK, that’s the _average_ family receiving benefits and the _average_ family receiving benefits is not receiving _maximum_ benefits because MOST people on footstamps actually do have other (admittedly small) sources of income, some of which is expected to go towards food. That’s why the formal name of the program is Supplemental Nutritional **Assistance** Program. > [@](#): > > So now, in the case of the New York family of four mentioned above, their government-supplied food-buying assistance will drop from $2.41 per person per day to $1.92 per person per day, which, although it can’t actually be used to buy food at McDonalds, wouldn’t buy a small bag of fries and a drink even if it could. Except that the average benefit receiving family actually has some other money coming in so, presumably, they’ll be able to spend more than $192 a day on food. I agree, there is some political motivation here, but let’s not distort the impact any more than absolutely necessay, m’kay? > [@](#): > > And while we’re on the subject, do members of state and federal bureaucracies ever get laid off? If so I don’t recall hearing of it. Yes, they do. Both my local and state governments have had lay offs. It’s been low key, yes, but if you read past page 4 in the newspaper you can find it. Except for workers in public aid - they’ve been _hiring_ some due to increased demand. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/437 "2010-08-15T12:42:36Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > > [@Broomstick](#): > > > > And I actually CAN think of a time when expensive/luxury items should be allowed - when there are clearance sales, for example, so a cut of meat is greatly reduced in price ( **well, your per-pound limit might well take care of that issue** ). . > > Wow, somebody actually read what I wrote. Yes. I may not _agree_ with what you write, but I do actually read it. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/438 "2010-08-15T14:13:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I constantly pick up wood for me and my friends to burn. People who have tree’s cut down appreciate it when someone hauls it away for free. If you’re implying that this is an option for most people, then your arguments are now approaching a Diogenesian/Starving Artist-ish level of “This is my experience. It is the only valid experience. Anyone who claims different experience is clearly lying.” I’d imagine that many if not most people on public assistance don’t have a ton of friends who live on spreads that require regular removal of large burnable vegetation. ---
**Author:** ![misterW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@misterW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misterW)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/439 "2010-08-15T15:32:39Z")
Although somewhat torn, I don’t feel the government should regulate foods purchased with stamps. This seems to fall into my position with things like motorcycle helmets – personally, I think you are foolish not to wear one, but it should be YOUR choice. Personally, I think it is foolish to eat frozen pizzas all the time, but that should still be your choice to make. I am surprised at the resistance I have seen to criticize some of the food choices people on food stamps make. Sure, you can find valid excuses here and there, but the majority of people are not eating junk food for any good reason. What about some kind of educational requirement to go along with food stamps, just as those with unemployment insurance have to attend classes on how to find jobs? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/440 "2010-08-15T16:24:53Z")
> [@misterW](#): > > What about some kind of educational requirement to go along with food stamps, just as > those with unemployment insurance have to attend classes on how to find jobs? Funny - when I was on unemployment I wasn’t require to “attend classes on how to find jobs”. Is that peculiar to your location? Anyhow - you can force people to attend classes, but you can’t force them to listen. I don’t think that’s the most effective way to change behavior, particularly when a significant number of these choices are driven by factors outside of nutritional knowledge like time constraints, lack of cooking facilities, and so on and so on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410.md?page=23)