# Should people only be allowed to purchase ingredients with food stamps? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 6, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410 "2010-08-06T16:08:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/41 "2010-08-06T17:56:31Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Instead of “food stamps” we could copy what is being done in places like Africa during famine, and give out sacks of flour/etc. We had that in the 1970s. It was called the “commodity foods” program, and that was ridiculed by the Right as “government cheese”. I ate some of the stuff, and it was generally mediocre. It became a way for farmers and food processors to get rid of their surplus. Even if a poor person is buying crap, at least the money is being spent. An argument could be made that processed crap food benefits the economy more than raw ingredients - that the processing provides more and better jobs. Seconded on the point about not having the time. I’m on a diet that requires me to cook every meal. Between preparing food and washing dishes it would be a very good day that would mean less than 2 hours devoted to this task. If I were working two minimum wage jobs, it’s a choice between cooking and sleeping. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/42 "2010-08-06T17:58:04Z")
Perhaps we ought to put home economics classes back into the public schools? It shouldn’t take more than a semester to teach kids to be competent cooks. Of course, there’d still be the problem of lack of facilities, but it’d be a start. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/43 "2010-08-06T18:05:14Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > > [@kayaker](#): > > > > Instead of “food stamps” we could copy what is being done in places like Africa during famine, and give out sacks of flour/etc. > > We had that in the 1970s. It was called the “commodity foods” program, and that was ridiculed by the Right as “government cheese”. I ate some of the stuff, and it was generally mediocre. It became a way for farmers and food processors to get rid of their surplus. One of my friends was on gov’t assistance for a while a few years ago, and they still did this, including a pretty large amount of literal gov’t cheese. In fact, it was more cheese then a family their size could conceivably consume, so they ended up giving a good chunk of it to me. This was in Vermont, which puts a lot of effort (or at least rhetoric) into supporting its dairy industry, so perhaps that explains both the amount and relative high-quality of the cheese. As to the OP, I agree with what others have said. My gf’s mom used food stamps when my gf was young. At the time she was working two part-time jobs and raising two young children, asking her to spend a lot of extra time in the kitchen would’ve been pretty harmful to both her and her childrens well-being. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/44 "2010-08-06T18:10:51Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > \*\* standing and applauding \*\* > > Seriously, the judgemental posts here are from people who have no friggin’ \*clue \*what it’s like to be seriously, completely, overwhelmingly in poverty. I don’t mean “I can’t go out to dinner because otherwise I couldn’t pay my rent” type of broke. I mean “I can’t buy Top Ramen and even if I could I have nowhere to cook it” type of broke. > > Crap like this: > > > [@](#): > > > > Have you ever used a crock pot? > > doesn’t help either. Crock pots aren’t free, ya know. They can’t pay for their own food, and now you want them to purchase _appliances_?!? This. People who have never been in poverty really have no idea what it’s like. It is soul crushing, grinding you down day after day after day after day. Your job sucks. Your house sucks. You can’t afford to do anything fun, and even if you could you have no time. And then people come in and say 'Now your food has to suck too," because I really think that’s what this is about. “You are poor, you have no right to enjoy nice food.” I mean, the OP didn’t say, but was the couple even fat (not that I think it matters, but still)? Being poor is not a moral position. It doesn’t make you a bad person unworthy of pleasure. Most people on food stamps are people going through a hard time (especially now, sheesh) who will get their shit back together as soon as they can. Believe me, they want to. The cookies they eat may be the only enjoyable part of their life, and unless you’ve lived through it, no you have no idea what that is like. Just mind your own damn business and be thankful you aren’t in that position. Also, these days there are no “food stamps”; there’s an EBT card. OP, how do you know they were even using food stamps? It works just like a debit card. I smell a rat. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/45 "2010-08-06T18:20:49Z")
At some point it becomes more expensive to try to monitor every single dollar we give to the poor rather than take the risk that they may mis-spend some of it. Are we really that worried that an unemployed mother of 3 with a third grade education is taking advantage of us and getting away with a candy bar? If we are going to monitor who spends what, there are a lot better places to start than with welfare checks. “Look, over there. A welfare queen buying cigarettes,” cries the corporate CEO as he cashes his million dollar bail out check. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/46 "2010-08-06T18:27:50Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Go look at a broke college student’s pantry and then tell me it’s cheaper to live on ingredients. I’ve been a broke college student. It’s cheaper to live on ingredients. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/47 "2010-08-06T18:30:46Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Also, these days there are no “food stamps”; there’s an EBT card. OP, how do you know they were even using food stamps? It works just like a debit card. I smell a rat. He said he saw her use a card. Do EBT cards have a distinctive design? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/48 "2010-08-06T18:31:39Z")
Hmmm… maybe we could also require that food stamps be used in proper proportion to what the USDA recommends in terms of the food pyramid. If we want poor people to be healthy, then we shouldn’t subsidize excessive consumption of red meat and carbohydrates at the expense of fresh and nutritious fruits and vegetables. So, if someone buys only one serving of fruit along with seven servings of grains and nine servings of meat, we should only allow food stamps to be used on one serving of each of fruit, grains, and meat. Otherwise we’re subsidizing bad eating habits! But wait, what if someone tries to game the system, and buys 9 servings of the cheapest veggies available, along with 9 servings of grains and meats? I bet they’re planning on throwing the veggies away and just eating nine cheeseburgers. We can’t have that. We should also index the value of food stamps to the number of people being fed, and pro-rate that out, day by day. So if there are 3 people in the household, we shouldn’t allow them to buy more than 3 servings from each food group each day. Otherwise they’d be over-consuming! And wait, I just thought of something else! To avoid further gaming of the system, I propose that we all say “Fuck it” and let people just buy food and not starve. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/49 "2010-08-06T18:33:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > > > Also, these days there are no “food stamps”; there’s an EBT card. OP, how do you know they were even using food stamps? It works just like a debit card. I smell a rat. > > He said he saw her use a card. Do EBT cards have a distinctive design? Also, I have had cashiers complain to me about how the previous shopper bought x,y,z using an EBT card. ---
**Author:** ![Oregon\_sunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/50afbb/32.png) [@Oregon\_sunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oregon_sunshine)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/50 "2010-08-06T18:35:42Z")
If you’re homeless, where are you going to cook? I’m sorry but it’s almost like you are being willfully ignorant. Can’t you just take a second for some actual, rational thoughts to form in your head?? Dehumanizing people with less money than you is the modern Great American Social Scourge. So universal, so accepted, and so terribly terribly WRONG. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/51 "2010-08-06T18:42:29Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > > Go look at a broke college student’s pantry and then tell me it’s cheaper to live on ingredients. > > I’ve been a broke college student. > > It’s cheaper to live on ingredients. It depends on the ingredients. It’s hard to beat foods like ramen noodles. Junk food can be really cheap. 'sides, time is money. If you’re working two jobs and taking care of kids and can’t make ends meet, I don’t think it’s really fair to say you should be slaving away cooking everything from scratch, too. Anyway, people are going to make poor choices sometimes. That’s how it is. I don’t think the overhead cost and the numerous exceptions that would be needed will pay off. Inevitably, there will be people who game the system, and the people who are trying to do the right thing will be the ones who get punished, as usual. Some programs, like being able to spend food stamps at farmers’ markets, are good. They encourage healthy eating by giving flexibility. Clamping down won’t make people who are living on sugar water and Ho-Hos suddenly start cooking well balanced meals. Cooking from ingredients can be just as unhealthy. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/52 "2010-08-06T18:52:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > > Go look at a broke college student’s pantry and then tell me it’s cheaper to live on ingredients. > > I’ve been a broke college student. > > It’s cheaper to live on ingredients. > > Regards, > Shodan I was a broke college student much more recently. You’re wrong. Actually, technically it’s cheapest to live on sneaking into the cafeteria using other peoples’ meal plan cards, but I don’t think that’s an option for most food stamp recipients. ---
**Author:** ![Dilton\_Doiley\_Philosopher\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f1d935/32.png) [@Dilton\_Doiley\_Philosopher\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dilton_Doiley_Philosopher_King)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/53 "2010-08-06T18:54:06Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > A couple of older threads: > > [Food stamps- should there be restrictions on what you can buy? - Great Debates - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=188226) > [Replacing food stamps with real food for poor - Great Debates - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=528436) I’m halfway through the second thread, and what they say about the bureaucracy and overhead makes sense… people are going to game the system, so instead of trying to impose your moral ideology on somebody, if you are going to give them money (in some fashion, ie EBT), then just do it the cheaper way and give them cash. On preview, it looks like others in this thread, like **fluiddruid** have said the same thing. However, be that as it may, the food stamps / EBT system is broken, and I think that it needs to be reconfigured to not allow for junk food, or be abolished in lieu of cash. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/54 "2010-08-06T18:55:59Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > > [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > > > Also, these days there are no “food stamps”; there’s an EBT card. OP, how do you know they were even using food stamps? It works just like a debit card. I smell a rat. > > He said he saw her use a card. Do EBT cards have a distinctive design? In Arizona, only someone who’s had an EBT card would know what it looks like. The card’s design is very plain, just like the unemployment cards. I HAVE one and I can’t even remember what the design is. It’s as if it was designed to blend in. Edit: Which it probably was. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/55 "2010-08-06T18:59:51Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > > [@Marley23](#): > > > > He said he saw her use a card. Do EBT cards have a distinctive design? > > Also, I have had cashiers complain to me about how the previous shopper bought x,y,z using an EBT card. If a cashier said something like that to me, I would complain to his/her manager. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/56 "2010-08-06T19:02:06Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > > [@kayaker](#): > > > > Also, I have had cashiers complain to me about how the previous shopper bought x,y,z using an EBT card. > > If a cashier said something like that to me, I would complain to his/her manager. Meh. I ignore the cashier, whether he/she is telling me about the previous shopper, commenting on the weather, etc. Too much trouble. ---
**Author:** ![mil0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@mil0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mil0)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/57 "2010-08-06T19:11:47Z")
Ramen costs 28 cents for 300 calories. Good luck beating that. -Currently broke college student ---
**Author:** ![Dilton\_Doiley\_Philosopher\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f1d935/32.png) [@Dilton\_Doiley\_Philosopher\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dilton_Doiley_Philosopher_King)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/58 "2010-08-06T19:20:39Z")
[Here is a very insightful PDF](http://www.fns.usda.gov/ora/menu/Published/snap/FILES/ProgramOperations/FSPFoodRestrictions.pdf) from the USDA about this very issue. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/59 "2010-08-06T19:45:47Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > > [@Hello\_Again](#): > > > > Lack of access to cooking facilities, time to cook, or even a permanent home should not preclude food assistance. Elderly people or the disabled who lack fine motor control to handle knives should not be precluded from food assistance. > > > > So, no. > > \*\* standing and applauding \*\* > > Seriously, the judgemental posts here are from people who have no friggin’ \*clue \*what it’s like to be seriously, completely, overwhelmingly in poverty. I don’t mean “I can’t go out to dinner because otherwise I couldn’t pay my rent” type of broke. I mean “I can’t buy Top Ramen and even if I could I have nowhere to cook it” type of broke. > > Crap like this: > > > [@](#): > > > > Have you ever used a crock pot? > > doesn’t help either. Crock pots aren’t free, ya know. They can’t pay for their own food, and now you want them to purchase _appliances_?!? Well, shit they should tighten their belt and trade in their jag for a lexus. ---
**Author:** ![G-SE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f0a364/32.png) [@G-SE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G-SE)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/60 "2010-08-06T19:49:25Z")
Just a gripe here. I had an EBT card about 2 years ago while in between jobs. The amount of $ issued to me, a single person, was about 50% more than my normal amount I budget for food. I am a very good food shopper, buying specials and generic brands as often as possible. With the EBT card, I bought enough junk to last me twice as long as expected, all name brand. I wish there was a way to ensure smarter shopping on the part of the recipient, as a way to reduce the benefit amount. But I understand that would be difficult to do so it’s too bad. On another note, I had to hold my tongue a few weeks ago while checking out at the grocery store while the lady in front of me tried to sort out her food / non-food items for checkout, while yapping away on her Iphone. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410.md?page=4)