# Should people only be allowed to purchase ingredients with food stamps? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 6, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410 "2010-08-06T16:08:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/61 "2010-08-06T19:52:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t know how easy it would be to categorize the thousands of food products out there, and we should also consider that a lot of people on food stamps are working (either both parents or single parents) w/ not a lot of free time to cook. As long as liquor and tobacco and other items like that aren’t allowed, I say let the people buy what they want. I don’t know the difference between the various food programs but I’ve seen grocery stores put identifiers next to each WIC approved food item. It makes sense to eliminate junk food and limit the choices to food that is budget appropriate. > [@Marley23](#): > > Since a lot of people on food stamps are unemployed or underemployed, I’m not sure it’s a good idea to require them to spend more time preparing their food instead of working or looking for work. Maybe the program could be set up in such a way that food stamps spent on ingredients or healthier food go further, which might counteract the problem of unhealthy foods being so cheap. unemployed or underemployed means they have the same time or more than other people have to prepare meals. Your point is best applied to someone below the poverty level working more than 40 hrs a week. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > It takes hours to make soup. I’ve done it. Have you ever made soup? A single working mom with a few kids doesn’t have time to make soup. I disagree. Chicken Soup: 1 whole roasted chicken from the reduced sale bin 2 packs of Lipton instant soup mix water brought to a boil a few strands of spaghetti chopped up to add bulk 2 eggs 15 minutes to boil water, pull chicken apart and add in beaten eggs. The remaining chicken goes into sandwiches and a chicken & rice casserole. There are an infinite number of easy recipes that are cheaper to make and more nutritious than fully prepared meals. I’m not saying this based on some academic exercise I say it because I’ve been unemployed for 2 1/2 years and I eat food that I purchased without assistance. I’m doing it by necessity. The op’s example of a $95 junk food bill (assuming it’s WIC money) is that it represents publicly funded child abuse. The elephant in the room is that we recognize the malnutrition foisted upon poor children by their parents because we turn around and spend money AGAIN on school breakfast programs. > [@xtisme](#): > > Are you going to teach people to cook and give them all the stuff necessary to prepare their own food as well? > > Even if your answer is ‘yes’, I don’t think it would be right to tell people what they should or shouldn’t eat. Granted, if you are giving them assistance you CAN tell them what they should or shouldn’t eat…I just don’t think it would be right to do so. I admit that MMV on this. > > -XT 12 years of publicly financed education provide the skills necessary to cook nutritious meals and libraries will have cookbooks available. The tools necessary to prepare basic meals can be found at thrift stores for pennies on the dollar. The desire to help the poor often has something of a patronizing element to it. We assume poverty equates to someone living under a bridge without the skill to tie a shoe. Yes, there are people like that but they fall into the category of those who are fed in food kitchens because they have nothing. The vast majority of people on public assistance have the ability to cook on some level. In both cases, politicians have the fiduciary responsibility to spend tax money wisely in order to feed the greatest number of people. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/62 "2010-08-06T20:10:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > > [@Shodan](#): > > > > I’ve been a broke college student. > > > > It’s cheaper to live on ingredients. > > > > Regards, > > Shodan > > I was a broke college student much more recently. You’re wrong. No, I’m not. Processed food is going to cost more than its ingredients. Because you have to account for the cost of processing. > [@Magiver](#): > > unemployed or underemployed means they have the same time or more than other people have to prepare meals. Your point is best applied to someone below the poverty level working more than 40 hrs a week. Most poor people in the US work part-time, or not at all. [Cite.](http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2004/01/understanding-poverty-in-america) ETA, since **John Mace** has been known to complain when I don’t cut and paste my cites so he doesn’t have to click - > [@](#): > > In good economic times or bad, the typical poor family with children is supported by only 800 hours of work during a year: That amounts to 16 hours of work per week. Plus this notion that poor people cannot be expected to cook for themselves or their families is a little hard to see. I managed it, even working full-time. Why can’t they? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/63 "2010-08-06T20:18:06Z")
Actually, my benefit review is scheduled for next week. I am this close to having an actual panic attack. Any interaction with the welfare office terrifies me. There’s no logical reason for this. The one bad interaction was when the post office lost my forms and paper work and my benefits were cancelled as a result. I routinely buy ice cream and cherry soda. As others have said, in a largely joyless life (I suffer from chronic depression), they provide brief moments of happiness. I also occasionally buy extravagancies for friends and relatives- I skip a meal or two and get mom a bottle of gourmet hot sauce for Hannukah. Largely, I live on cereal and diet Mountain Dew. I know a few other folks on disability. One has muscular distrophy. She can’t breathe on her own or raise her hands to her chin. Forcing her to buy ingredients would mean paying for her caregiver to cook. Most of the folks at the day program I attend are on disability. A few can just manage living alone but under no circumstances should use the oven, stove, or large knives unsupervised. Finally, not everybody has access to stores that sell ingredients. Many of Philadelphia’s poor sections lack full grocery stores. If there are no supermarkets near you, then you are forced to buy from Kwik E Mart’s. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/64 "2010-08-06T20:24:05Z")
I have no clue what somebody on EBT would be doing with an actual I Phone. However, plenty of poor folks have bargain cell phones. In fact there’s a program called SafeLink that provides people on welfare with free Tracphones. I recently got one. It’s a basic phone (no camera or touchscreen, no ports for connecting to a computer) with 60 or so minutes each month. So it’s entirely possible for somebody to be genuinely poor and have a cell phone. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/65 "2010-08-06T20:28:37Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I have no clue what somebody on EBT would be doing with an actual I Phone. However, plenty of poor folks have bargain cell phones. In fact there’s a program called SafeLink that provides people on welfare with free Tracphones. I recently got one. It’s a basic phone (no camera or touchscreen, no ports for connecting to a computer) with 60 or so minutes each month. > > So it’s entirely possible for somebody to be genuinely poor and have a cell phone. If you don’t make a lot of calls and have a by-the-minute cell phone it can be a LOT cheaper than a lane line. I spend less than $20 a month out the door for cell phone service instead of $30 plus long distance I’d be spending for a land line. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/66 "2010-08-06T20:34:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Processed food is going to cost more than its ingredients. Because you have to account for the cost of processing. Like how buying a fully-assembled car is more expensive than buying all the parts of a car at Pep Boys? ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/67 "2010-08-06T20:37:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Perhaps we ought to put home economics classes back into the public schools? It shouldn’t take more than a semester to teach kids to be competent cooks. Of course, there’d still be the problem of lack of facilities, but it’d be a start. My child just started kindergarten and I was pleasantly surprised that they have a “cooking” lesson once a week. It’s very basic stuff, but includes lessons in where food comes from, safe handling, nutrition, etc. It sounds like something they should do everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/68 "2010-08-06T20:40:45Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The desire to help the poor often has something of a patronizing element to it. Better patronization than the more common sadism and control freakishness exemplified by proposals like this one. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/69 "2010-08-06T20:42:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Processed food is going to cost more than its ingredients. Because you have to account for the cost of processing. Not true. A human needs calories in the short term, not nutrition. Most poor people food provide calories at very good prices. Also, if you weren’t tossing out blanket ideological truisms, you might stop to think that processed food could indeed be cheaper because of economies of scale and shipping. Compare four apples with a block or Top Ramen. The Ramen is processed, but the components are delivered on site in bulk, manufactured, packaged and then delivered (it weighs much less per calorie than an apple). The delivery can be much slower than what is necessary for apples (which of course means much cheaper). There isn’t as much loss in transit, there isn’t as much loss on the shelf of the supermarket. Couple this with the fact that a lot of the poor aren’t as educated as you are, need to feed children who want sweets, may not live in walking distance to an actual supermarket, and it seems like the issue isn’t a cut and dried as you suggest. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/70 "2010-08-06T20:55:45Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > > [@kayaker](#): > > > > Instead of “food stamps” we could copy what is being done in places like Africa during famine, and give out sacks of flour/etc. > > We had that in the 1970s. It was called the “commodity foods” program, and that was ridiculed by the Right as “government cheese”. I ate some of the stuff, and it was generally mediocre. It became a way for farmers and food processors to get rid of their surplus. > > Even if a poor person is buying crap, at least the money is being spent. An argument could be made that processed crap food benefits the economy more than raw ingredients - that the processing provides more and better jobs. > > Seconded on the point about not having the time. I’m on a diet that requires me to cook every meal. Between preparing food and washing dishes it would be a very good day that would mean less than 2 hours devoted to this task. If I were working two minimum wage jobs, it’s a choice between cooking and sleeping. They still have government cheese. I pass it out once a month at a food pantry and we run out every month, people line up pretty early to get the first crack at the almsot too ripe fruits and vegetables and day old bread (and so they don’t miss out on . There is also government canned meat (it comes in what must be gallon cans), Government peanut butter (once again, by the gallon), government canned corn and other vegetables (yep you guessed it, gallon). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/71 "2010-08-06T21:04:40Z")
Quoth **G-SE** : > [@](#): > > I had an EBT card about 2 years ago while in between jobs. The amount of $ issued to me, a single person, was about 50% more than my normal amount I budget for food. I am a very good food shopper, buying specials and generic brands as often as possible. With the EBT card, I bought enough junk to last me twice as long as expected, all name brand. My family ought to have been on food stamps for most of my childhood, except that Mom had a hard time convincing the welfare office that we qualified. When we finally did manage to get them for about a year, she was excited because it would give her an opportunity to stock up for years in advance. Then, as it turned out, we ended up hosting a family of Vietnamese refugees, and she was able to use food stamps intended for a family of three to feed eight people. If you really know how to shop for the genuinely cheap food, you can stretch dollars (food stamp or otherwise) a lot further than you’d think. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/72 "2010-08-06T21:06:58Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I have no clue what somebody on EBT would be doing with an actual I Phone. Maybe they got the iPhone when they were employed, before they went on food stamps. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/73 "2010-08-06T21:25:16Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > > [@DocCathode](#): > > > > I have no clue what somebody on EBT would be doing with an actual I Phone. > > Maybe they got the iPhone when they were employed, before they went on food stamps. Or before their spouse left them. A middle-aged women who has spent the last 15 years as a housewife will probably find herself on food stamps fast if her husbands decides to skip off with his favorite Hooters waittress. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/74 "2010-08-06T21:27:58Z")
Let’s say a working mother gets off work at five and has an hour bus ride home. Her kids go to sleep at eight. She’s got two solid hours with the kids each day. What is the best use of her time? Each hour that she’s in the kitchen is an hour that she’s not helping with homework, cuddling the kids, talking to them about their day, reading to them, etc. God, I wish poor families had the resources to provide the idea everything- but they don’t. Something is going to be sacrificed. Some things are going to be less than ideal. For some families, this ends up being diet. All I can say is I’m glad I don’t have to be the one to decide what my kids have to do without. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/75 "2010-08-06T21:31:30Z")
I can’t cook, and nobody’s sadistic nannyism can change that fact. Nor will their disbelief in the idea that people can’t cook change that fact. So let’s be quite clear - if it involves gauging amounts, times, colors, consistencies, remembering to add all the ingredients, remembering which ingredients I’ve added, or remembering that I left something on the burner, then it’s extremely unwise to leave the task in my hands, and I will not attempt it unless I have no other choice, and even then I will attempt only the minimum. So, if I were on food stamps, what would I be allowed to eat? Raw fruit and vegetables, yes, what I can eat before it rots. Do I get pre-cooked bread, or do I have to chew on dry flour? ---
**Author:** ![Anon2020](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f17d59/32.png) [@Anon2020](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anon2020)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/76 "2010-08-06T21:58:05Z")
DianaG- Hell yeah! We SHOULD mind our own business about what other people eat. I am on Food Stamp assistance, and I buy cookies. Shoot me! I also use my card to buy my daughter milk, vegetables, bread, bananas, apples- what are you gonna do? Make us eat Brussels sprouts? I like Brussels sprouts too, lol. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/77 "2010-08-06T22:00:58Z")
> [@Lorac35](#): > > I like Brussels sprouts That’s just wrong. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/78 "2010-08-06T22:01:33Z")
[QUOTE=begbert2] Do I get pre-cooked bread, or do I have to chew on dry flour? [/QUOTE] What, you don’t have a bakery in the back of your abode? Well then, I wouldn’t want to patronize you (having been born with a silver spoon in my mouth), so…start chewing, flour boy… 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/79 "2010-08-06T22:31:05Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > … Even if a poor person is buying crap, at least the money is being spent. An argument could be made that processed crap food benefits the economy more than raw ingredients - that the processing provides more and better jobs. … We have a winner! [del]Food Stamps[/del] SNAP ([Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program](http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/)) isn’t there to feed the poor. It’s there to put money in the pockets of companies companies like [Kraft Foods](http://www.kraftfoodscompany.com/Brands/largest-brands/index.aspx) and [Pepsico](http://www.pepsico.com/Company/Our-Brands/Pepsi-Cola-Brands.html) (take a good look at that site if you think they only sell soda) and of course supermarkets. The poor getting food is just what’s required to make the transfer occur. Think those companies might have something to say about taking away their SNAP profits? And say it in cash to elected officials that need that cash to stay elected officials? Think it’s just a coincidence that SNAP is administered by the Department of Agriculture? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2010, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/80 "2010-08-06T22:43:59Z")
Fnord _you_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410.md?page=5)