# Should people only be allowed to purchase ingredients with food stamps? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 6, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410 "2010-08-06T16:08:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/101 "2010-08-07T07:30:16Z")
> [@lee](#): > > If you rely on rice too heavily, especially polished white rice, which is the cheapest I have found, you will not get enough variety of nutrients. I found that after a while, my tongue would get sore and eventually crack and bleed. Rice is an incomplete protein. You need to mix it with something like beans and you now have a complete protein. Corn and beans are another example of two incomplete proteins when mixed together make a complete one. You can also use lentils or peas and such instead of beans. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/102 "2010-08-07T08:10:23Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > Perhaps that’s the solution. Just give food stamp people generic bottles of Ensure, and ration them out so they get no more than the USDA average of 2,000 calories a day :rolleyes: Yeah, and maybe we can hire someone to whip them while they gag down their Ensure to make absolutely sure they don’t extract a moment of pleasure from life. After all, they’re poor, which makes them demonically evil and it’s our duty to punish them at every turn. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/103 "2010-08-07T08:18:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > I AM a broke college student, right now, even as we speak! It is usually not cheaper to live on ingredients. I can buy ramen and frozen pizza for much cheaper than I can buy eggs, flour, butter, meat, and fresh vegetables. > > Ramen, sure, but where are you getting frozen pizza that cheap? I buy them when they’re on sale for 30 cents an ounce (the usual price is more like 40), and all the other foods you mention are 10 or 20 cents an ounce. Heck, even home-grown vine-ripened fresh organic heirloom tomatoes from the farmer’s market are only 25 cents an ounce, and those are absolute luxury as vegetables go. You have a Save-a-lot over there? You can get a normal sized frozen pizza for $1.50 a piece. It’s a good deal. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/104 "2010-08-07T14:24:38Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > > [@Hello\_Again](#): > > > > Lack of access to cooking facilities, time to cook, or even a permanent home should not preclude food assistance. Elderly people or the disabled who lack fine motor control to handle knives should not be precluded from food assistance. > > > > So, no. > > \*\* standing and applauding \*\* > > Seriously, the judgemental posts here are from people who have no friggin’ \*clue \*what it’s like to be seriously, completely, overwhelmingly in poverty. I don’t mean “I can’t go out to dinner because otherwise I couldn’t pay my rent” type of broke. I mean “I can’t buy Top Ramen and even if I could I have nowhere to cook it” type of broke. > > Crap like this: > > > [@](#): > > > > Have you ever used a crock pot? > > doesn’t help either. Crock pots aren’t free, ya know. They can’t pay for their own food, and now you want them to purchase _appliances_?!? ^ This. Most of the time I was on food stamps - excuse me, EBT - I couldn’t cook in a crock pot because _I didn’t own one_. I didn’t own one because _I didn’t have the money to buy one_. If you haven’t been there you just don’t understand, but I seriously had some months where I had literally _nothing_ left over. I was washing underwear in the sink because I couldn’t afford to do the laundry at the laundry mat. I was using baking soda (which can be purchased with foodstamps) for cleaning because I didn’t have money for cleanser or toothpaste. And you expect me to buy a _cooking appliance?_ Are you fucking _kidding?_ Thank Og things got better (and thank you again to the generous Dopers and everyone else who helped me out and, among other things, enabled me to finally get a crockpot last December!). And keep in mind - I was one of the lucky poor, with a real kitchen and my utilities included in my rent so I didn’t have to worry about increased bills from cooking all day 'cause, you know, whether it’s gas or electric running your stove a lot will cost energy and money. I also had a big enough refrigerator and freezer to store perishables. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/105 "2010-08-07T14:25:51Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Also, these days there are no “food stamps”; there’s an EBT card. OP, how do you know they were even using food stamps? It works just like a debit card. I smell a rat. I don’t know about the OP, but here in Indiana the EBT cards are light blue and have a distinctive logo. Once you know what they look like you can easily identify them. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/106 "2010-08-07T14:30:08Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > SIt the kids at the kitchen table and chat with them, ask schoollish questions/help answer tougher questions and crack jokes while cooking. Heck, my mom cooked diner ever night while my brother and I did homework on the kitchen table and we weren’t poor … Well aren’t you smarter and more industrious than poor people. :rolleyes: maybe my Mom is a worse person than yours, but your setup just wouldn’t have worked when I was growing up. To begin with, mom was dog tired at this point. And we didn’t have a kitchen table, just a tiny galley kitchen in the back of the apartment. So what would have happened is my small bit of home life would have been me watching tv alone while waiting for mom to emerge with a plate for me. She recognized that I needed a mom more than I needed a waitress. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/107 "2010-08-07T14:31:12Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > > [@Dilton\_Doiley\_Philosopher\_King](#): > > > > I already said I was sure there are a few other exceptions, so let’s try not to focus on that too much. Canned soups such as cream of mushroom would count as ingredients; canned soups such as chicken noodle could count as a necessary convenience food, in the vein of cold cereal, however it is relatively easy to make and freeze chicken soup. However, frozen dinners are definitely not ingredients. > > It takes hours to make soup. I’ve done it. Have you ever made soup? A single working mom with a few kids doesn’t have time to make soup. I have plenty of soup recipes I can get on the table in 20 minutes (assuming I have STOCK which does take hours, but I would think is an ingredient) - they tend to use “convienence ingrediants” i.e. stock, canned beans instead of dried beans, frozen spinich. Bread also takes forever from scratch. I don’t know if we still do, but some of my friends grew up on “government cheese” “government corn” (dried) and “government millet” - Millet takes forever to cook. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/108 "2010-08-07T14:37:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > unemployed or underemployed means they have the same time or more than other people have to prepare meals. Your point is best applied to someone below the poverty level working more than 40 hrs a week. Incorrect. When I was initially put on foodstamps I was required to look for work “30 hours per week” but the agency decided on what counted as “looking for work”, not me. The upshot was that I was probably spending 45-50 hours a week on job hunting but they only counted 30 hours of my effort, if that much. Another poster who appeared in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=545293&highlight=food+stamp) and I communicated extensively through PM and she was forced to look for work 30 hours per week _in addition to_ working part time, meaning _at least_ 50 hours per week working and looking for work, in some weeks more than that. If you did not comply ALL benefits could be terminated - a pretty harsh penalty if you’re utterly dependent on this aid for survival. So yeah, I was under/unemployed but they terms of the aid I received _demanded_ I spend at least 40-50 hours a week outside my home. In other words, I had no more time to cook than anyone who was working a full time job. Please absorb this knowledge and consider changing your opinion in this matter. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/109 "2010-08-07T14:42:39Z")
I’ve been looking at this thread from time to time, and the players have lined up just as they always do, just like anyone else would have expected them to. Once again, there seem to be the “I was poor in college but still made it” guys. Oh for fucks sake. If you were in college, how poor could you be? If you were eating cheap ass shit, it was your own fault. Then there is the usual undertone of “why let them eat what they choose, if we can force them to buy substandard and overpriced ingredients, and cook meals from scratch” group. The ingredients CAN cost more than some finished product. Depending on how the ingredients are packaged, you may have to buy more than you needed, and the “left over” goes to waste. There is the “poor people are poor because they don’t work, or work fewer hours”. Here’s something - many places (fat food places especially) play games with the schedules. The manager rearranges all the time to ensure no one works a full week. Why? The employees are part time and get no benefits that way. They’ve pulled that on people I personally know. They don’t work a full week, because the schedule gets changed to KEEP them from getting the 40 hours. And then, there is the “poor people just suck, so let’s make them suffer” mentality. Yeah, right. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/110 "2010-08-07T15:28:11Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > Actually, my benefit review is scheduled for next week. I am this close to having an actual panic attack. Any interaction with the welfare office terrifies me. There’s no logical reason for this. You know, my interactions with public aid have been neutral to positive for the most part, but I have that exact same reaction as well. I suppose it’s as good a time as any to say that, after three glorious months of making sufficient income to not qualify for food stamps I may be reapplying on Monday. Oddly enough, I also got a lead on a part time job as well. My life is… interesting these days. But between the two my nerves are jangling. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/111 "2010-08-07T15:32:21Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > We have a winner! > > [del]Food Stamps[/del] SNAP ([Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program](http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/)) isn’t there to feed the poor. > It’s there to put money in the pockets of companies companies like [Kraft Foods](http://www.kraftfoodscompany.com/Brands/largest-brands/index.aspx) and [Pepsico](http://www.pepsico.com/Company/Our-Brands/Pepsi-Cola-Brands.html) (take a good look at that site if you think they only sell soda) and of course supermarkets. Then again, feeding the poor is a helluva nice side effect… ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/112 "2010-08-07T15:41:47Z")
> [@lee](#): > > You know, you can buy food plants with food stamps, and a tomato plant is cheaper than buying tomatoes week after week. Why not require them to buy plants in spring instead of giving all that money for ingredients? Well, what you gonna do if there’s a flood or a drought or some drunken asshole drives an SUV through their garden? You’re also assuming poor people have a _room_ for a garden. I happen to have the room (and a garden) but many don’t. Well, suppose if the poor gardener has a crop failure we can just let 'em starve. :rolleyes: Or were you being sarcastic? I’m not sure. ---
**Author:** ![G-SE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f0a364/32.png) [@G-SE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G-SE)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/113 "2010-08-07T16:40:31Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > So it’s entirely possible for somebody to be genuinely poor and have a cell phone. When I said Iphone I meant… Iphone. Sorry if that confused you. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/114 "2010-08-07T16:54:42Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Markxxx](#): > > > > Perhaps that’s the solution. Just give food stamp people generic bottles of Ensure, and ration them out so they get no more than the USDA average of 2,000 calories a day > > :rolleyes: Yeah, and maybe we can hire someone to whip them while they gag down their Ensure to make absolutely sure they don’t extract a moment of pleasure from life. After all, they’re poor, which makes them demonically evil and it’s our duty to punish them at every turn. I think you’re being whooshed. Honestly, if people make bad choices on food stamps THEY are the ones who are going to suffer. Like **Sleeps** pointed out that one woman. Yeah, she’d just go to the pantry, but eventually they’d probably catch on. Hell, you don’t need food stamps to waste money – you could spend your entire grocery budget on lobster and caviar. But you wouldn’t have any money for anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/115 "2010-08-07T17:11:52Z")
> [@G-SE](#): > > > [@DocCathode](#): > > > > So it’s entirely possible for somebody to be genuinely poor and have a cell phone. > > When I said Iphone I meant… Iphone. Sorry if that confused you. And, as already pointed out, it is entirely possible she purchased an iPhone _prior_ to an economic catastrophe that left her on foodstamps. Poor today doesn’t mean poor last year. There’s just no way to know if she’s formerly middle-class or higher and down on her luck, but still retaining items bought in the past, or a scammer of some sort. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/116 "2010-08-07T17:16:32Z")
> [@G-SE](#): > > > [@DocCathode](#): > > > > So it’s entirely possible for somebody to be genuinely poor and have a cell phone. > > When I said Iphone I meant… Iphone. Sorry if that confused you. Maybe it was a gift. Maybe she bought the phone before she lost her job. Maybe she had an upgrade coming and made a decision to buy it because she couldn’t afford or get broadband for her house and her kid needs to use the internet. Maybe it was a friend’s phone and he or she let her use it for the day. Maybe she’s been looking for a job so long she decided that email access while out was a necessity so she can jump on any contacts in real time. Maybe she got access to a cheap jail broken iPhone on ebay or through a friend that upgraded and is using it without a data plan. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/117 "2010-08-07T17:31:02Z")
I don’t have much of an opinion on food stamps. But I’m a little tired of the argument that the poor are so stupid that they can’t figure out how to make polenta and beans. That they have so little time that throwing things into a crock pot is impossible. If they have such poor planning and life skills that these tasks are beyond them, they really need to be in a group home where someone throws institutional food on their plate. I think we do the poor no favors by assuming that they are so dumb that they can’t manage to boil water, bake a potato and that a microwave burrito and frozen pizza are the most we can expect from them. Frozen pizza may taste better, it may be easier and quicker, and it may even be cheaper (though its hard to get cheaper than polenta and refried beans - polenta by itself outcheaps even ramen noodles - cooks about as fast, too). But poor people are NOT stupid people incapable of feeding themselves. Illiterate peasants manage to cook for themselves. Certainly the American poor can figure out how to make oatmeal and scrambled eggs. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/118 "2010-08-07T17:35:21Z")
Most of them do. What makes you think they don’t? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/119 "2010-08-07T17:40:34Z")
A doper sport, slamming the poor. It is fun to slam the needy who are struggling. If you didn’t, you might find yourself feeling for those who are hurting. Can’t have that. So we will demonize them. They are evil and stupid . I have so much to teach them about how they should live their lives. Come sit on my knee and I will tell you how to be like me. But remember, the good things in life are not for you. Even a coke or a bag of chips is not allowed for the little people . ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410/120 "2010-08-07T18:02:20Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > > > We have a winner! > > > > [del]Food Stamps[/del] SNAP ([Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program](http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/)) isn’t there to feed the poor. > > It’s there to put money in the pockets of companies companies like [Kraft Foods](http://www.kraftfoodscompany.com/Brands/largest-brands/index.aspx) and [Pepsico](http://www.pepsico.com/Company/Our-Brands/Pepsi-Cola-Brands.html) (take a good look at that site if you think they only sell soda) and of course supermarkets. > > Then again, feeding the poor is a helluva nice side effect… Indeed. Giving poor people money for food is far more effective than any other way to stimulate the economy. The farmers benefit, as do the various ingredient processors, the brand, the distributors and the supermarket. Wages are paid at every step, something that doesn’t happen if the poor grow their own food. Why does the Right Wing hate the free market? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-only-be-allowed-to-purchase-ingredients-with-food-stamps/549410.md?page=7)