# Should people with no children pay taxes for schools? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 19, 2007, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-with-no-children-pay-taxes-for-schools/419792 "2007-09-19T21:46:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-with-no-children-pay-taxes-for-schools/419792/141 "2011-06-06T16:16:24Z")
The zombie tax my city just voted on (to create a Zombie Patrol) is obviously working; there aren’t any zombies around! ---
**Author:** ![just\_some\_guy5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@just\_some\_guy5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/just_some_guy5)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-with-no-children-pay-taxes-for-schools/419792/142 "2011-06-06T17:03:46Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Two things. > > First, the value fo your home is significantly influenced by how well funded your local school is (or at least how good it is). This causal relationship seems backwards to me - doesn’t it seem more likely that well-funded school systems are a product of the tax revenues from high-value homes? ---
**Author:** ![just\_some\_guy5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@just\_some\_guy5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/just_some_guy5)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-with-no-children-pay-taxes-for-schools/419792/143 "2011-06-06T17:13:23Z")
And to the OP (of four years ago…), I do think that everyone should be responsible for supporting public schools given the various collective social benefits that many folks on here have mentioned. Having said that, I don’t think the concept of paying more or less based on the number of one’s children enrolled in said public schools is a completely unreasonable idea. Yes, everyone benefits from public education - however, those who actually attend the schools benefit in a much more direct way. Of course, in order to enforce this sort of system in an equitable / palatable way you’d need to adjust the required taxes for income level in the same way income taxes are adjusted. As such, I suppose large, wealthy families would bear the largest public school tax burden (which doesn’t seem too unreasonable). ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-with-no-children-pay-taxes-for-schools/419792/144 "2011-06-06T18:00:56Z")
> [@Fair\_tax](#): > > I am sick of hearing these people come on here defending the fact that a single person should have to pay property taxes for schools. You’re sick of a thread that’s been quiet for years? Do you hold a grudge that long? Does it take that long to come up with your rebuttal? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-with-no-children-pay-taxes-for-schools/419792/145 "2011-06-06T18:06:13Z")
> [@just\_some\_guy5](#): > > And to the OP (of four years ago…), I do think that everyone should be responsible for supporting public schools given the various collective social benefits that many folks on here have mentioned. Having said that, I don’t think the concept of paying more or less based on the number of one’s children enrolled in said public schools is a completely unreasonable idea. \ I can get behind that idea. I don’t mind paying a base rate for schools that I will never benefit from with the idea that an educated society is a public good; I like the idea of the people whose children are actually benefitting from the schools paying more than I do even more. > [@HookerChemical](#): > > You’re sick of a thread that’s been quiet for years? Do you hold a grudge that long? Does it take that long to come up with your rebuttal? He was crafting the perfect reply. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-with-no-children-pay-taxes-for-schools/419792/146 "2011-06-06T18:15:52Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Two things. > > First, the value fo your home is significantly influenced by how well funded your local school is (or at least how good it is). > > Second, for every dollar that we spend in public education, we end up collecting even more in additional tax dollars. i.e. the more educated those kids get, the more they pay in all sorts of taxes which ends up relieving you of taxes that would otherwise be borne by you. Third, you are arguing with someone who left the SDMB about 4 1/2 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-with-no-children-pay-taxes-for-schools/419792/147 "2011-06-06T18:18:14Z")
> [@just\_some\_guy5](#): > > This causal relationship seems backwards to me - doesn’t it seem more likely that well-funded school systems are a product of the tax revenues from high-value homes? I think it’s symbiotic: Good schools produce students that grow up to be high earners, then high earners buy houses in neighborhoods that pay to support good schools. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-with-no-children-pay-taxes-for-schools/419792/148 "2011-06-06T20:59:53Z")
> [@just\_some\_guy5](#): > > This causal relationship seems backwards to me - doesn’t it seem more likely that well-funded school systems are a product of the tax revenues from high-value homes? Its a bit chicken and egg but if my neighborhood suddenly stopped funding its schools, my home value would drop significantly. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-with-no-children-pay-taxes-for-schools/419792/149 "2011-06-06T21:01:40Z")
> [@just\_some\_guy5](#): > > And to the OP (of four years ago…), I do think that everyone should be responsible for supporting public schools given the various collective social benefits that many folks on here have mentioned. Having said that, I don’t think the concept of paying more or less based on the number of one’s children enrolled in said public schools is a completely unreasonable idea. Yes, everyone benefits from public education - however, those who actually attend the schools benefit in a much more direct way. Of course, in order to enforce this sort of system in an equitable / palatable way you’d need to adjust the required taxes for income level in the same way income taxes are adjusted. As such, I suppose large, wealthy families would bear the largest public school tax burden (which doesn’t seem too unreasonable). And what if those wealthy families send their kids to private schools? The whole notion of a la carte government is flawed. If you want it to be a la carte, you might as well just leave the whole damn thing to the private sector. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-with-no-children-pay-taxes-for-schools/419792/150 "2011-06-06T21:03:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Third, you are arguing with someone who left the SDMB about 4 1/2 years ago. I guess i am also responding to the FAIRTAX guy who seems to hold pretty much teh same views as the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-with-no-children-pay-taxes-for-schools/419792/151 "2011-06-06T21:09:24Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Its a bit chicken and egg but if my neighborhood suddenly stopped funding its schools, my home value would drop significantly. Yup; pretty well every real estate ad in my city is careful to mention when that house it is in a good school district, which (not surprisingly) adds to the value of the house. I also agree that if you tax only those with kids to pay for schools on the theory that those without aren’t using schools, the wealthy - many of whom send their kids to private schools - would, on that same theory, demand not to be taxed as well … ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-with-no-children-pay-taxes-for-schools/419792/152 "2011-06-06T22:06:36Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I can get behind that idea. I don’t mind paying a base rate for schools that I will never benefit from with the idea that an educated society is a public good; I like the idea of the people whose children are actually benefitting from the schools paying more than I do even more. > > He was crafting the perfect reply. He should have kept crafting another five years. ---
**Author:** ![just\_some\_guy5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@just\_some\_guy5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/just_some_guy5)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-with-no-children-pay-taxes-for-schools/419792/153 "2011-06-06T22:18:50Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And what if those wealthy families send their kids to private schools? > > The whole notion of a la carte government is flawed. If you want it to be a la carte, you might as well just leave the whole damn thing to the private sector. I don’t think it would have to be a la carte. You could simply charge families with of-age children regardless of whether they’re sent to public or private school (I could see this as a divisive issue, but it’s not much different from the current system). ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-with-no-children-pay-taxes-for-schools/419792/154 "2011-06-06T22:22:41Z")
> [@just\_some\_guy5](#): > > This causal relationship seems backwards to me - doesn’t it seem more likely that well-funded school systems are a product of the tax revenues from high-value homes? I can tell you that most people buying houses will look at the school districts. Realtors pitch good school districts and, at least when I was looking in 2007 in the San Fran area, crappy houses in good school districts went for a premium. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-with-no-children-pay-taxes-for-schools/419792/155 "2011-06-06T22:24:53Z")
> [@just\_some\_guy5](#): > > I don’t think it would have to be a la carte. You could simply charge families with of-age children regardless of whether they’re sent to public or private school (I could see this as a divisive issue, but it’s not much different from the current system). But I thought the whole argument was that it wasn’t fair to in effect charge people (through taxation) for a service (public schools) they were not using. People who send their kids to private schools are not using public schools any more than those who do not have children. ---
**Author:** ![just\_some\_guy5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@just\_some\_guy5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/just_some_guy5)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-with-no-children-pay-taxes-for-schools/419792/156 "2011-06-06T22:33:48Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > But I thought the whole argument was that it wasn’t fair to in effect charge people (through taxation) for a service (public schools) they were not using. > > People who send their kids to private schools are not using public schools any more than those who do not have children. Agree that it’s not a completely fair system, but at least in charging all households with of-age children you’re giving families the option to send their children to public school versus paying a premium if they really, really want their kids in private school. Household’s without children, conversely, have no such choice and therefore pay less of the tax burden. Not saying it’s the best solution, but IMHO it seems better than the current setup. ---
**Author:** ![just\_some\_guy5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@just\_some\_guy5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/just_some_guy5)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-with-no-children-pay-taxes-for-schools/419792/157 "2011-06-06T22:37:48Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Its a bit chicken and egg but if my neighborhood suddenly stopped funding its schools, my home value would drop significantly. I totally agree with this, and only mentioned the causal relationship seemed “backwards” because it seems to me that you generally need to start with a relatively wealthy neighborhood if you’re going to have a well-funded school. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-with-no-children-pay-taxes-for-schools/419792/158 "2011-06-06T22:46:33Z")
> [@just\_some\_guy5](#): > > Agree that it’s not a completely fair system, but at least in charging all households with of-age children you’re giving families the option to send their children to public school versus paying a premium if they really, really want their kids in private school. Household’s without children, conversely, have no such choice and therefore pay less of the tax burden. Not saying it’s the best solution, but IMHO it seems better than the current setup. If the _whole point_ of protesting against the current system is based on a _fairness argument_, seems absolutely fatal to insist on _further_ unfairness towards those similarly situated. Fact is, the only benefit of having public schools in the first place under your system would be payment averaging among parents of school-age children (since parents would, collectively, be paying 100% for school). Better, as in “more fair”, in that case to simply eliminate public school altogether and let each parent pay for their kid’s education through private schooling. That way each parent can pay 100% for the schooling of their own kids. Of course, poor parents wouldn’t be able to pay anything, so their kids would not get any education, but at least that would be “fair”. I think you can see the problem here - there is no legitimate reason to support a socialist system of taxation as being a “good” as between parents, but not a “good” as between parents and non-parents. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-with-no-children-pay-taxes-for-schools/419792/159 "2011-06-07T00:03:24Z")
> [@just\_some\_guy5](#): > > I totally agree with this, and only mentioned the causal relationship seemed “backwards” because it seems to me that you generally need to start with a relatively wealthy neighborhood if you’re going to have a well-funded school. That’s not the way it works in several states at least. In California all the property tax money goes to the state, which doles it out according to complex (and unfair) formulas, some of which are from relative spending on schools when this started, decades ago. Wealthy districts have better scores not because the schools are funded better, but because wealthier people pay more attention to their childrens education and will complain about problems in the schools louder. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-with-no-children-pay-taxes-for-schools/419792/160 "2011-06-07T01:21:22Z")
> [@Fireclown](#): > > My opinion is no. If I have no children, or grown children not in school, why should I have to pay for them? Why not have a tax deduction for people with no children? Should people with no cars pay for roads? Should healthy people pay for hospitals? (Well, not in the US, I hear - I should probably avoid healthcare as an example). Should non-aflame homeowners pay for fire-brigades, and those without AK-47-wielding communists battering their doors in pay for defence? Should the young pay for the elderly? Should non-impossible-astronauts pay for NASA? Should non-victims-of-crime pay for the police? You pay in to society. You get stuff out of society. You pay for the roads, he pays for the schools, you all benefit overall. An educated populace benefits you in a million ways. Possible more so than any other single thing does. Would you honestly rather live in a country where nobody could read or write? Where technological and cultural and literal development was non-existent? _Really?_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-with-no-children-pay-taxes-for-schools/419792.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-people-with-no-children-pay-taxes-for-schools/419792.md?page=9)