# Should Physician-Assisted Suicide be legal throughout the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 26, 2021, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-physician-assisted-suicide-be-legal-throughout-the-us/956686 "2021-12-26T22:04:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SoToasty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sotoasty/32/2803_2.png) [@SoToasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoToasty)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-physician-assisted-suicide-be-legal-throughout-the-us/956686/41 "2021-12-27T14:39:37Z")
I don’t disagree with you, and I certainly do not have all the answers for how to safeguard people. I do know that PAS would help a lot of people go peacefully to the next life or whatever comes after. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-physician-assisted-suicide-be-legal-throughout-the-us/956686/42 "2021-12-27T14:42:46Z")
Let me throw a bone to your side: from my observations of current practices both in Europe and in a couple of US states do seem to work reasonably well. The main complaints I hear is about the process being too slow or too cumbersome. I know there have been some difficult edge cases but you always get those when medicine and ethics are concerned. The problem going forward is how to maintain the current high level of protections for those involved, and how to avoid involving people who object to PAS. Well, OK, my own preference is to not allow this but I understand that the rest of civilization might view it differently. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-physician-assisted-suicide-be-legal-throughout-the-us/956686/43 "2021-12-27T14:43:43Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Sorry - do you honestly think it’s going to STOP at “people taking control of their lives?” I honestly think that you have shown us _no_ link between what is being proposed and what you claim are examples of what it could turn into, because _neither_ of your two examples started with what is proposed here. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-physician-assisted-suicide-be-legal-throughout-the-us/956686/44 "2021-12-27T14:44:53Z")
Fine. Live in denial that so called “mercy killing” can turn into outright murder despite historical precedent. I don’t enjoy beating my head against a wall, much less a stubborn one. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-physician-assisted-suicide-be-legal-throughout-the-us/956686/45 "2021-12-27T14:46:12Z")
_We are NOT talking about “mercy killing”_. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-physician-assisted-suicide-be-legal-throughout-the-us/956686/46 "2021-12-27T14:46:56Z")
Aren’t you? Aren’t you enlisting one person to kill another to relieve suffering? From the Oxford English Dictionary: > the killing of a patient suffering from an incurable and painful disease, typically by the administration of large doses of painkilling drugs. Sounds an awful lot what you’re advocating. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-physician-assisted-suicide-be-legal-throughout-the-us/956686/47 "2021-12-27T14:48:21Z")
At their own request and of their own free will, which you consistently drop. ---
**Author:** ![SoToasty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sotoasty/32/2803_2.png) [@SoToasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoToasty)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-physician-assisted-suicide-be-legal-throughout-the-us/956686/48 "2021-12-27T14:49:07Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I understand that. Do you understand that you are asking ME to tolerate what I, personally, believe to be murder? Yes I do get that, and another of others believe the same thing. I personally do not believe it would be murder for a physician to help someone who is in pain, and who is at the end of their life, to help the end their life. I will also say, the safeguards need to ensure no one is put to death. They should only help some end there own life. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-physician-assisted-suicide-be-legal-throughout-the-us/956686/49 "2021-12-27T14:49:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > At their own request and of their own free will, which you consistently drop. I don’t see it stopping there. Convince me it won’t lead to involuntary killing. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-physician-assisted-suicide-be-legal-throughout-the-us/956686/50 "2021-12-27T14:50:07Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I don’t see it stopping there. Convince me it won’t lead to involuntary killing. Convince us that it EVER has in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-physician-assisted-suicide-be-legal-throughout-the-us/956686/51 "2021-12-27T14:56:09Z")
Calling PAS murder is as offensive as calling abortion murder. Insisting that people suffer because PAS offends your sensibilities is borderline sadistic at best. The older I get, the more I favor PAS. I feel I have a right to die with dignity. A painful long death is not something I want to go through and it’s not something I want to put my family through. What may or may not happen with medical institutes, insurance companies, or family members coercing be damned. We can cross those lines when we get to them. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-physician-assisted-suicide-be-legal-throughout-the-us/956686/52 "2021-12-27T14:56:15Z")
I provided cites. You have dismissed them. Very well: here’s a mother who murdered her child: [https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/woman-accused-killing-autistic-son-faces-death-penalty-73921751](https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/woman-accused-killing-autistic-son-faces-death-penalty-73921751) Here’s a father: > **['Why Did I Kill My Son?' Tenn. Man Murdered Son with Autism, 5, Whose Body...](https://people.com/crime/tennessee-father-murdered-son-autism-body-remains-missing/)** > > Joseph Ray Daniels was convicted after a week-long trial Here’s another: > **[East Sussex: Mother charged with murdering severely disabled 10-year-old son](https://news.sky.com/story/east-sussex-mother-charged-with-murdering-severely-disabled-10-year-old-son-12419776)** > > Mustafa, a 10-year-old boy who lived with severe physical and mental disabilities, died on 30 September 2018, with a post-mortem examination suggesting his death was due to the administration of non-prescribed medication. And another: > **[Mom sentenced to jail for killing disabled adopted daughter | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2016/05/18/health/mom-jail-killing-disabled-daughter/index.html)** > > Bonnie Liltz thought she needed to take the young woman's life in order to save it. And another: > **[Robert Latimer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Latimer)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Robert William Latimer (born March 13, 1953) is a Canadian canola and wheat farmer who was convicted of second-degree murder in the death of his daughter Tracy (November 23, 1980 – October 24, 1993). This case sparked a national controversy on the definition and ethics of euthanasia as well as the rights of people with disabilities, and led to two Supreme Court decisions, R. v. Latimer (1997), on section 10 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and F... These have all occurred where mercy killing is NOT legal. How are you going to stop people like this from attempting to enlist doctors to do their killing for them? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-physician-assisted-suicide-be-legal-throughout-the-us/956686/53 "2021-12-27T14:58:07Z")
None of those examples so far have anything to do with the topic of this thread, which is “Physician Assisted Suicide”, so I dismiss them. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-physician-assisted-suicide-be-legal-throughout-the-us/956686/54 "2021-12-27T15:01:13Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Calling PAS murder is as offensive as calling abortion murder. When someone pro-life calls abortion murder I acknowledge that that is their belief system whether or not I agree with it. > [@Grrr](#): > > Insisting that people suffer because PAS offends your sensibilities is borderline sadistic at best. Where do I “insist” they suffer? I absolutely advocate administering all possible treatment and pain relievers to the suffering, up to and including a medical coma. I’m OK with removing artificial life support rather than prolong dying. I’m very much opposed to suffering. > [@Grrr](#): > > What may or may not happen with medical institutes, insurance companies, or family members coercing be damned. We can cross those lines when we get to them. Once I’m dead against my will any penalties heaped on my murderers (because, without my consent, that’s what it would be) doesn’t help me one bit, nor do belated policy changes. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-physician-assisted-suicide-be-legal-throughout-the-us/956686/55 "2021-12-27T15:05:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > None of those examples so far have anything to do with the topic of this thread, which is “Physician Assisted Suicide”, so I dismiss them. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack\_Kevorkian#Trials,\_conviction,\_and\_imprisonment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kevorkian#Trials,_conviction,_and_imprisonment) Unfortunately, the one victim of Dr. Kevorkian whose care I was tangentially involved with I can not discuss due to HIPAA. Other than to say that there was absolutely no way in hell they could have either given their consent at the time OR activated the suicide device themself. Or are you now going to deny Kevorkian was a licensed medical doctor and that what he did was assisted suicide? If YOU want PAS to be legal in the United States convince me that I do not have to fear someone coming to murder me when I’m helpless. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-physician-assisted-suicide-be-legal-throughout-the-us/956686/56 "2021-12-27T15:13:34Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > [Jack Kevorkian - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kevorkian#Trials,_conviction,_and_imprisonment) > > Unfortunately, the one victim of Dr. Kevorkian whose care I was tangentially involved with I can not discuss due to HIPAA. Other than to say that there was absolutely no way in hell they could have either given their consent at the time OR activated the suicide device themself. Your claims, which you yourself cannot/will not back up with evidence, are not supported by that article. Do you have any “slippery slope” examples that actually start with physician-assisted _suicide_. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-physician-assisted-suicide-be-legal-throughout-the-us/956686/57 "2021-12-27T15:19:22Z")
I get it. You’re going to wait until physician assisted murder (that is, _without_ the consent of the person killed) occurs before you believe safeguards are necessary, and maybe not even then. Except you’re ignoring evidence this has already occurred. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-physician-assisted-suicide-be-legal-throughout-the-us/956686/58 "2021-12-27T15:23:13Z")
No, you _don’t_ get it. I am asking for an example of physician-assisted suicide leading to the nightmare scenarios NOT involving physician-assisted suicide you keep showing us. Got one? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-physician-assisted-suicide-be-legal-throughout-the-us/956686/59 "2021-12-27T15:34:10Z")
**Canadian Dopers:** How’s it (ie, [**Medical Assistance In Dying**](https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/medical-assistance-dying.html)) going up there ? Any material horror stories to speak of ? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-physician-assisted-suicide-be-legal-throughout-the-us/956686/60 "2021-12-27T15:48:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No, you _don’t_ get it. Of course I get it. You are so terrified of dying in agony that you think risking the murder of non-consenting people is an acceptable risk. I do not. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > I am asking for an example of physician-assisted suicide leading to the nightmare scenarios NOT involving physician-assisted suicide you keep showing us. This was carried out by licensed doctors: > **[Aktion T4](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aktion_T4)** > > Aktion T4 (German, .mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}pronounced \[akˈtsi̯oːn teː fiːɐ\]) was a campaign of mass murder by involuntary euthanasia in Nazi Germany. The term was first used in post-war trials against doctors who had been involved in the killings. The name T4 is an abbreviation of Tiergartenstraße 4, a street address of ... Nazi Germany eliminated - without consent - the mental patients and the institutionalized disabled before going on to kill - without consent - non-disabled adults that were judged as human vermin. Again, you disregard historical examples. At this point I realize you can’t be convinced, you will accept no evidence. I’m mainly posting these examples for those whose minds are open. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-physician-assisted-suicide-be-legal-throughout-the-us/956686.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-physician-assisted-suicide-be-legal-throughout-the-us/956686.md?page=4)