# Should POLAND Give Back East Prussia To Germany? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 26, 2004, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-poland-give-back-east-prussia-to-germany/261593 "2004-08-26T13:46:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-poland-give-back-east-prussia-to-germany/261593/81 "2015-07-21T01:47:02Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Modern day Germans. Ancient Germans settled in Magna Germania until displaced by Slavic migration. That’s not what the evidence says. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-poland-give-back-east-prussia-to-germany/261593/82 "2015-07-21T04:27:43Z")
> [@Nelson\_Pike](#): > > Correct and Amen. > > Germany’s war guilt was so obvious and so colossal that it is reasonable to consider it got off lightly. Huh, reminds me of [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11553962) in which Margaret Thatcher gets some (in my opinion, clearly undeserved) scorn for opposing German reunification. Frankly, I can easily picture someone of Thatcher’s generation, with adult memories of the Blitz and of parents talking about the _previous_ world war Germany had started, not only being leery of its reunification but privately regretting that the whole country wasn’t run through a giant wood-chipper in 1946. ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2015, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-poland-give-back-east-prussia-to-germany/261593/83 "2015-07-21T09:41:33Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Thanks – I think you’re restating a point that I made about 11 years ago in post #6. > > There is one big obstacle to this free movement of people throughout Europe, however: Russia is outside the EU and looks unlikely to join it for the foreseeable future. The thread started in August 2004. In May 2004 Poland and eight other countries joined the EU known as the A8 group. Free movement did not start everywhere at the same time. The existing 15 countries were given until 2011 to complete the process, before that time restrictions could be made to limit numbers migrating. The main result of this was movement from East to West, economic migration from poorer countries to richer ones that had the fewest restrictions (eg. UK). At the same time, there has been a huge rise in budget airlines and bus services. It is cheap and easy to get across Europe. Sometimes people go back and forth between countries several times a year. Whether Germans with a feeling of cultural heritage associated with East Prussia took advantage of this, I doubt. Nice for a cultural tour, perhaps. But a long term holiday home in sunny Spain would probably have a higher priority. What is new is the rumblings in the East and Putins mischief making amongst the Russian speaking communities of EU countries bordering Russia. Many of those countries have inbuilt constitutional fault lines because of the way people were moved around during Soviet times leaving pockets of Russian speakers in many countries. The breakup of the Soviet Union is a much more recent event than WW2 and there is no political process for resolving territorial disputes between Russia and other countries. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-poland-give-back-east-prussia-to-germany/261593/84 "2015-07-23T14:58:06Z")
Does anything remain of hitler’s “Wolf’s lair” headquarters in Rastenburg, east Prussia? I imagine it was destroyed, but does any trace remain? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-poland-give-back-east-prussia-to-germany/261593/85 "2015-07-23T17:47:24Z")
> [@filmstar-en](#): > > The breakup of the Soviet Union is a much more recent event than WW2 and there is no political process for resolving territorial disputes between Russia and other countries. The same, of course, was said about the collapse of Yugoslavia. But we do have the Helsinki principles (no revision of borders, but human rights for individuals and minorities) which, however shakily, just about held in the end in Yugoslavia - not to mention (in the case of Ukraine) the Budapest Memorandum of 1994. There is a framework for resolving such issues on Russia’s western frontier in the OSCE. The question isn’t whether a political process exists but how it’s approached and used. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-poland-give-back-east-prussia-to-germany/261593/86 "2015-07-23T19:07:50Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Does anything remain of hitler’s “Wolf’s lair” headquarters in Rastenburg, east Prussia? I imagine it was destroyed, but does any trace remain? Partially blown up before the Red Army reached it, but[there’s enough left to visit.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf%27s_Lair) ---
**Author:** ![kurtisokc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kurtisokc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kurtisokc)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-poland-give-back-east-prussia-to-germany/261593/87 "2015-07-23T23:16:30Z")
> [@Milford\_Cubicle](#): > > I think it’s safe to say that Europe has had about enough of fighting over borders by now. As such, it’s highly unlikely that the current borders in Europe will be changing anytime soon… Tell that to the people of Crimea and Donetsk. ---
**Author:** ![kurtisokc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kurtisokc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kurtisokc)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2015, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-poland-give-back-east-prussia-to-germany/261593/88 "2015-07-23T23:27:11Z")
> [@kurtisokc](#): > > Tell that to the people of Crimea and Donetsk. I just realized that I responded to an 11-year old post. :smack: > [@JRDelirious](#): > > Sometimes you just have to say yep, history happened, ain’t that something, and move on. That’s pretty much how I feel. Unless. . . . > [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > We should cede Europe back to the Neanderthals. Then we can tell the annoyingly passive-aggressive GEICO cave men to “go back to Europe.” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-poland-give-back-east-prussia-to-germany/261593/89 "2015-07-25T02:51:00Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > … not only being leery of its reunification but privately regretting that the whole country wasn’t run through a giant wood-chipper in 1946. If I recall correctly, that was one of Churchill’s suggestions: undo the 1870 unification of Germany, and recreate the components as sovereign states: Bavaria, Free Port of Hamburg, Hanover, and so on. Prussia would have probably been further split up. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2015, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-poland-give-back-east-prussia-to-germany/261593/90 "2015-07-25T20:50:27Z")
Is there much development in EP today? the land is pretty fertile-i saw the ruins of a huge estate - it belonged to a family now living in Germany-the whole property was abandoned since 1945. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-poland-give-back-east-prussia-to-germany/261593.md?page=4)