# Should police officers carry guns? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 13, 2015, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-police-officers-carry-guns/717548 "2015-04-13T05:09:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-police-officers-carry-guns/717548/81 "2015-04-14T00:05:58Z")
Wow, you really seem to be on this “goverments are evil and the bane of existence” kick. I’m sure somebody here could point out a few countries with minimal goverments and no existing police forces. You may want to visit one some time and see just how rosy life is there. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-police-officers-carry-guns/717548/82 "2015-04-14T01:58:42Z")
> [@jezzaOZ](#): > > . . . New Zealand has a largely unarmed Police force and relatively well armed civilians and a very low rate of Police Homicide (of and by). . . . But they have a very low level of all homicides, and thus don’t demonstrate the kind of need for an armed police presence. When the U.S. level of gun murders drops to N.Z.'s levels, I’ll have a very different opinion on armed policemen. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-police-officers-carry-guns/717548/83 "2015-04-14T02:30:27Z")
> [@jezzaOZ](#): > > Should there be SWAT teams to start with? Even the acronym smacks of disrespect for those not in the Police Gang. > > New Zealand has a largely unarmed Police force and relatively well armed civilians and a very low rate of Police Homicide (of and by). > > They have an all volunteer group called the Armed Offenders Squad raised from ordinary Police working a roster. They are remarkably reluctant to shoot people. Up until recently they were minimally armed and didn’t wear ballistic protection or any of the other cosmetic gear designed to make them more aggressive. > > When I say minimally armed, I mean bolt action rifles and revolvers. > > Sadly the taint of aggressive anti-civilian attitudes are creeping in and I’ve seen the odd ballistic helmet and AR-15 - certainly a strong incentive to waste people unnecessarily. Yes, but New Zealand isn’t America. This thread is (presumably) about disarming American cops. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-police-officers-carry-guns/717548/84 "2015-04-14T03:41:46Z")
This is a joke, right? A rhetorical exercise? Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-police-officers-carry-guns/717548/85 "2015-04-14T03:59:06Z")
> [@CaptainAmerica\_1987](#): > > I’m starting to think that police should be using non-lethal weapons only. Um…Have you thought this idea through? > [@CaptainAmerica\_1987](#): > > Oh I’m not advocating disarming the public at all. I’m very pro second amendment and a persons God given right to bear arms and to defend themselves but I don’t think the government being armed is a good thing at all. Oh. I see you have not. > [@CaptainAmerica\_1987](#): > > I don’t agree with them having tasers either. Did you fall off the rings while doing your pullups and bump your head? 😕 > [@PSXer](#): > > we should just get rid of cops and fix income inequality > if we had a universal basic income there would be no crime And if we shit rainbows, our poop would be pretty. > [@Velocity](#): > > Should SWAT teams be allowed firearms? Of course not! Not unless those SWAT teams were casually formed by a bunch of civilians! Pay attention man! 🆒 > [@CaptainAmerica\_1987](#): > > I wouldn’t even allow SWAT TEAMS Or this. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-police-officers-carry-guns/717548/86 "2015-04-14T04:10:25Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > And if we shit rainbows, our poop would be pretty. Or you could just do what my dog did when I was little, and eat some crayons. It makes about as much sense as the OP. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-police-officers-carry-guns/717548/87 "2015-04-14T08:45:27Z")
> [@CaptainAmerica\_1987](#): > > Government is a force that can never be trusted. History has shown any power government has it abuses. As for dealing with criminals disarmed police can still deal with crime. I hear this tripe spewed all the time and what some people don’t want to understand is that the current governments in countries like America, Australia, Britain, Canada etc are very different to what has existed in the past. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-police-officers-carry-guns/717548/88 "2015-04-14T08:48:29Z")
> [@CaptainAmerica\_1987](#): > > If it really gets to that point, which I doubt, than how about having the school teachers and administrators be armed? It works very well in Israel! Israel has the best security for their schools of any school system in the world. Well that’s no bloody surprise, they have neighbours trying to kill them left right and centre. Comparing the security issues faced in Israel with the US, Canada, Australia etc is building a very weak strawman indeed. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-police-officers-carry-guns/717548/89 "2015-04-14T08:51:32Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > we should just get rid of cops and fix income inequality > if we had a universal basic income there would be no crime Don’t know if trolling or not but of course income inequality causes a rise in crime, getting rid of it does not magically erase all crime but it does help. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-police-officers-carry-guns/717548/90 "2015-04-14T10:16:36Z")
At this point, we have to retrain police forces, and we need to treat shootings by patrolmen as a tactical failure. ETA: But that means very little if strategically, a significant minority of police forces and of white gringos generally are committed to the domination and/or destruction of indigenous Americans and blacks. Clearly the level of persecution of blacks in this country serves as a way of mocking and shaming “the half-breed in the White House,” and can be expected to continue for the rest of Obama’s term. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-police-officers-carry-guns/717548/91 "2015-04-14T12:02:05Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > ETA: But that means very little if strategically, a significant minority of police forces and of white gringos generally are committed to the domination and/or destruction of indigenous Americans and blacks. **Clearly the level of persecution of blacks in this country serves as a way of mocking and shaming “the half-breed in the White House,” and can be expected to continue for the rest of Obama’s term.** Bolding mine. Such an assertion would carry more weight if the “persecution of blacks in this country” could be shown to have begun, or significantly increased, when President Obama took office. It would carry even more weight if you could document that some actual killings were motivated by a desire to “mock and shame” the POTUS. ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-police-officers-carry-guns/717548/92 "2015-04-14T12:43:14Z")
> [@CaptainAmerica\_1987](#): > > Oh I’m not advocating disarming the public at all. I’m very pro second amendment and a persons God given right to bear arms and to defend themselves but I don’t think the government being armed is a good thing at all. The God-given rights are enumerated as “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,” give or take an Oxford comma. The RKBA isn’t predicated on the will of any Creator but the importance of a well-regulated militia to the security of a free state - that’s why the USA doesn’t maintain a standing armed force but relies on its gun-owning citizenry. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-police-officers-carry-guns/717548/93 "2015-04-14T16:01:40Z")
> [@CaptainAmerica\_1987](#): > > Governments have failed to protect people and only are here for the elite to rule over people. I’m guessing you’re white, straight, male, and at least nominally Christian. If you weren’t any one of those things, you’d very likely have a drastically different view of government. Given your views, I’m also guessing you don’t know much about Captain America. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-police-officers-carry-guns/717548/94 "2015-04-14T16:45:17Z")
If a poll survey could be done of violent criminals: \*“Should police officers be banned from carrying firearms?”, \*I’d imagine around 99% would say YES! ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-police-officers-carry-guns/717548/95 "2015-04-14T16:46:28Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Um…Have you thought this idea through? > > Oh. I see you have not. > > Did you fall off the rings while doing your pullups and bump your head? 😕 > > And if we shit rainbows, our poop would be pretty. > > Of course not! Not unless those SWAT teams were casually formed by a bunch of civilians! Pay attention man! 🆒 > > Or this. Ambivalid, that’s worth a warning. The entire post was awful snarky but the third sentence is what gets you dinged. You may not insult other posters in Great Debates. You should know that. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-police-officers-carry-guns/717548/96 "2015-04-14T17:24:58Z")
> [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](#): > > The God-given rights are enumerated as “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,” give or take an Oxford comma. The RKBA isn’t predicated on the will of any Creator but the importance of a well-regulated militia to the security of a free state - that’s why the USA doesn’t maintain a standing armed force but relies on its gun-owning citizenry. **All of this is wrong.** The phrase you refer to is from the DoI - not authoritative. Even if the DoI were authoritative, the phrase is not meant to be exhaustive so your characterization that those enumerated is what the God-given part is limited to is misleading. Further, it’s not God-given, but endowed by each person’s creator. The RKBA is independent of the well-regulated militia in the 2nd amendment. The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The USA does maintain standing armed forces. ---
**Author:** ![Shin\_Ji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Shin\_Ji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shin_Ji)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-police-officers-carry-guns/717548/97 "2015-04-14T18:14:56Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I would also ask for a cite of some black guy being murdered by the police for selling single cigarettes, but I am pretty sure I wouldn’t get it, being as how it never happened and all. > > Regards, > Shodan I’m genuinely confused. Is this satire? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-police-officers-carry-guns/717548/98 "2015-04-14T19:27:29Z")
> [@Shin\_Ji](#): > > I’m genuinely confused. Is this satire? I believe \*\*Shodan \*\*is saying that the guy who died in NYC wasn’t killed because he was selling single cigaretts. That was the starting point for the interaction with the cops, but it wasn’t the root cause of his death. Whether you think the police acted properly or improperly, I tend to agree with that assessment. I still think the evidence supports improper police actions, potentially rising to the level where murdrer charges are apprpriate, but IMO it is grossly inaccurate to say that he was murdered for selling individual cigarettes. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-police-officers-carry-guns/717548/99 "2015-04-14T19:28:56Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Ambivalid, that’s worth a warning. The entire post was awful snarky but the third sentence is what gets you dinged. You may not insult other posters in Great Debates. You should know that. Then please move this somewhere it can be appropriately responded to why don’t you? The entire thread is fucking ridiculous, the OP no less than bordering on trolling. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-police-officers-carry-guns/717548/100 "2015-04-14T22:48:24Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Then please move this somewhere it can be appropriately responded to why don’t you? > > The entire thread is fucking ridiculous, the OP no less than bordering on trolling. Yep. this is not a “Great” debate. Hell it’s not even a _pitiful_ debate. Altho it is PIT worthy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-police-officers-carry-guns/717548.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-police-officers-carry-guns/717548.md?page=6)