# Should President Obama pardon Chelsea Manning? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 14, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003 "2016-11-14T21:38:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/1 "2016-11-14T21:38:52Z")
[Chelsea Manning Asks President For Clemency And ‘First Chance At Life’](http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/14/502026384/chelsea-manning-asks-president-for-clemency-and-first-chance-at-life) > [@](#): > > Army Pfc. Chelsea Manning is asking President Obama to grant her clemency saying she is requesting “a first chance at life.” > > Manning was sentenced to 35 years in prison after perpetrating one of the largest leaks of classified information in U.S. history. > > Manning’s lawyers argue that she has already served the longest sentence of “any other whistleblower in American history” and Obama’s decision should be influenced by the fact that Manning was held in harsh conditions and solitary confinement for long stretches of time. > > “President Obama has the opportunity to right this wrong and commute her sentence to time served and we hope that he’ll give Chelsea a chance to live her life after her courageous act to raise public awareness about the impact of war on innocent civilians,” Vince Ward, one of Manning’s attorneys, said in a statement. I’m torn here. I’m sympathetic in some ways, 35 years is a long sentence, although she is eligible for parole in 8. On the other hand leaking military information in a time of war is very, very serious and could have unthinkable consequences. I would worry that a pardon might give the green light to future soldiers. All in all I’d have to come down against a Presidential pardon. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/2 "2016-11-14T21:51:46Z")
I would be very surprised if Obama did pardon Manning. While many have this image that Obama is “evolved” in a number of sympathetic ways (and consequently “soft”), I also believe Obama considers the responsibilities of the Presidency to be paramount. In that equation, pardoning Manning would be a bridge too far. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/3 "2016-11-14T21:56:53Z")
Of course he _should_. Will he? Hell no. He’s been the least transparent, most whistle-blower-punishing president ever. Why would he change course now? ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/4 "2016-11-15T02:20:26Z")
Too early. I have a great deal of sypathy for Chelsea Manning, but I think that sometimes you have to take the penalty for doing the right thing. If the sentence is 8-to-35, then the time for a presidential pardon is just slightly before 8: served sentence, & forgiven. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/5 "2016-11-15T02:24:47Z")
I say if snowden or manning gets pardoned so should the falcon … he did the same thing but gave it to the soviets instead of the press ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/6 "2016-11-15T03:19:27Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Too early. I have a great deal of sypathy for Chelsea Manning, but I think that sometimes you have to take the penalty for doing the right thing. If the sentence is 8-to-35, then the time for a presidential pardon is just slightly before 8: served sentence, & forgiven. I doubt she’ll be able to get her gender transition surgery between now & January 20th and I’m really afraid at what’s going to happen to her under the new administration. I say commute her sentence to time served and leave her with a dishonorable discharge on her record. She can start a new life in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/7 "2016-11-15T03:32:20Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > I say if snowden or manning gets pardoned so should the falcon … he did the same thing but gave it to the soviets instead of the press Giving information to the Soviets strikes me as a _hugely_ different situation than giving information to the press. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/8 "2016-11-15T06:28:44Z")
Absolutely not. She betrayed the Army and her country for selfish reasons, and she should serve her time for what she’s done. > [@Miller](#): > > Giving information to the Soviets strikes me as a _hugely_ different situation than giving information to the press. The thing is, when you give information to the press, the Soviets get it _too_. (Well, the Russians, anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/9 "2016-11-15T06:35:01Z")
I think Obama ought to commute her sentence but not pardon outright. That being said, I’ve wondered why you don’t see more presidents issuing a flurry of pardons in their last days in office like Bill Clinton did. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/10 "2016-11-15T06:48:59Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Giving information to the Soviets strikes me as a _hugely_ different situation than giving information to the press. The “Soviets”. Welcome to the 1980s. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/11 "2016-11-15T06:55:03Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > The “Soviets”. Welcome to the 1980s. “The Falcon” (Christopher John Boyce) was convicted in 1977, so yes, it was the Soviets. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/12 "2016-11-15T06:57:34Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The thing is, when you give information to the press, the Soviets get it _too_. (Well, the Russians, anyway.) Yes, they do. That doesn’t change the fact that clandestinely selling secret information to our national enemies is not remotely the same thing as releasing secret information openly to the American public, in a manner that makes them also available to our national enemies. In much the same way that deliberately walking up to a person and shooting them in the head is not the same crime as firing a gun into the air, and accidentally killing someone when the bullet falls back to earth - even though both acts result in someone dying from a gunshot. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/13 "2016-11-15T14:28:31Z")
No. Let him rot in prison. An excerpt from his whine - > [@](#): > > I attempted to take my own life. When the [United States Disciplinary Barracks] placed me in solitary confinement as punishment for the attempted suicide, I tried it again because the feeling of hopelessness was so immense. This has served as a reminder to me that any lack of treatment can kill me, so I must keep fighting a battle that I wish every day would just end. So he tries suicide to remind himself that he’s hopeless. Good luck with that. Regards, Shodan PS - No, he doesn’t deserve the basic respect of being referred to as “she”. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/14 "2016-11-15T14:35:26Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/15 "2016-11-15T14:40:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > PS - No, he doesn’t deserve the basic respect of being referred to as “she”. Why not, specifically? In other words, what relationship does her crime have to the use of a pronoun? It seems to me that if you argue that the pronoun is not an accurate one, we can discuss that. But you seem to be suggesting that, but for her offense, you’d agree that she is a she and not a he. I don’t follow this reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/16 "2016-11-15T14:52:25Z")
On balance, I think I agree with the suggestion that at best Manning’s sentence should be commuted to the minimum possible. I can’t see how a pardon is warranted unless we are just going to decide that disseminating classified information is no longer a crime. > [@Miller](#): > > Giving information to the Soviets strikes me as a _hugely_ different situation than giving information to the press. [Humphrey Appleby] Giving information to _anyone_ is serious. [/HA] ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/17 "2016-11-15T14:58:20Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I think Obama ought to commute her sentence but not pardon outright. That being said, I’ve wondered why you don’t see more presidents issuing a flurry of pardons in their last days in office like Bill Clinton did. Maybe it’s pay to play. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/18 "2016-11-15T15:02:01Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Absolutely not. She betrayed the Army and her country for selfish reasons, and she should serve her time for what she’s done. She _has_ served time. This is a matter of proportion. According to the [New York Time](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/14/us/politics/chelsea-manning-asks-obama-to-cut-sentence-to-time-served.html?_r=0)s, “While only a few leakers have been successfully prosecuted under the Espionage Act — the first such conviction came in 1985 — most of those convicted have received sentences of between about one year and three and a half years.” She got screwed on the plea deal–she pleaded guilty but got the maximum sentence. I did not read her petition except for the excerpts quoted by the press. My take is that she is making the wrong argument. Instead of arguing on the basis of the justice served by the sentence, she is just saying how miserable she is. Not a compelling case. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/19 "2016-11-15T15:34:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why not, specifically? Because he is a traitor. > [@](#): > > In other words, what relationship does her crime have to the use of a pronoun? Because some crimes are so morally egregious as to disqualify the criminal from being treated with respect. > [@](#): > > It seems to me that if you argue that the pronoun is not an accurate one, we can discuss that. But you seem to be suggesting that, but for her offense, you’d agree that she is a she and not a he. I don’t follow this reasoning. I am not speaking to the general case of whether or not it is part of common decency to refer to someone with his or her preferred gender. Because in this case it is irrelevant. Suppose it is part of common decency - traitors are not entitled to common decency. Suppose it isn’t - traitors are still not entitled. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/20 "2016-11-15T16:19:48Z")
Plea deals do not constitute guarantees. You take your chances. And PFCs aren’t paid to judge what is or is not in the national security interest. At best you ask yourself whether your orders are lawful, and if not then be willing to have to defend not doing your job because of unlawful orders. That said I’d sympatize with asking for commutation to a sentence more proportionate to others guilty of similar offenses, i.e. arguing selective rigor was applied to make an example; but not on the “chance at a life” argument. The “new chance at life” is not given to many a young citizen who screws up and is jailed for common crimes, nevermind this. BTW, Manning was not charged or convicted for Treason, that I know of, but of espionage. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003.md?page=2)