# Should President Obama pardon Chelsea Manning? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 14, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003 "2016-11-14T21:38:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/61 "2016-11-20T22:12:11Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Another reason information may be classified is to protect the source. It’s not always obvious from the information itself why said information is classified. True. Good point. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/62 "2016-11-21T03:43:56Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Anyone want to provide evidence for even a single leak of classified information that put lives in danger? Anyone? Not talking about giving Russians nuclear secrets in the '40s, but a leak by Wikileaks, Snowden, Manning, etc in the past decade or so. > > Just a single piece of info that was leaked, but shouldn’t have been because it put lives in danger, is all it takes to get me to change my mind. In the six or seven years or so this has been a newsworthy topic, I’ve yet to see a single piece of information that actually should have been classified to begin with. > > And yes, I had a secret clearance in the Army. I know that basically anyone can classify any document for any reason. And that most of those reasons have to do with furthering their career goals than anything to do with national security. [War logs](http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/08/21/what-bradley-manning-leaked/) that didn’t redact the names of people who have helped American forces overseas, these are people who live in places like Afghanistan, have no real protection, and were put at risk due to the exposure. WikiLeaks has actually gotten criticism for not redacting personal information rigorously for most of the big leaks it’s done, while it eventually did better with this data, the cat was already out of the bag. I don’t know if anyone was actually harmed by it, but yeah, I don’t see how covert contacts working with U.S. forces in Afghanistan are things that shouldn’t be classified. I also think it’s more or less stupid to say that a PFC should be deciding what gets declassified. I think that’s because of a mistaken belief that the only stuff that would be leaked would be things you want leaked. There is a culture of over classification, but large scale classified information dumps to shit bag actors like Russian-backed WikiLeaks is certainly not something to be celebrated. The fact that we seem to leak information like a sieve shows we have terrible controls on who has access to large amounts of classified information and the mechanism of access, but that doesn’t absolve Manning of her crimes any more than a poorly guarded bank is legal to rob. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/63 "2016-11-21T03:51:59Z")
Like the WSJ blog post says, the overwhelming majority of the documents she released had nothing to do with underreporting of civilian casualties in the Iraq War, or the infamous WikiLeaks “Collateral Murder” video (note that not a single war crime prosecution occurred because of said video, and there is no broad consensus it revealed a war crime at all); but instead the vast majority of documents were diplomatic cables. Most damaging were diplomatic cables in which allies were expressing opinions to us behind closed doors that were out of sync with their public opinions. This both embarrassed allies and made them less willing to trust us and our diplomats in the future. It didn’t advance anything in the public interest and made it harder for the United States to conduct diplomacy. That stuff is actually what Assange cares the most about–WikiLeaks has never been about war crimes or any of that stuff, in fact WikiLeaks loves Putin and he commits more war crimes in a week than the U.S. has in a decade. Assange deeply hates America, believes it is an ‘evil empire’, that covertly controls most of the world, and he also hates the “deep state”, or the “secret alliance of transnational Western elites” that he believes mostly control the entire West/much of the rest of the world. He views the U.S. as the big “heavy” and all the elites throughout the West as U.S. toadies, he likes dumping data because he believes it exposes the corrupt system of U.S. imperialism. I grew up in the Cold War so nothing Assange believes is unfamiliar to anyone who ever listened to a lefty college student in the 60s or 70s rant on in a bar, but it also isn’t a particularly insightful or healthy or accurate view of the world (back then or now), and it’s certainly not about stopping war crimes, genocides and etc. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/64 "2017-01-17T21:41:41Z")
Not a full pardon, but [her sentence has bee commuted.](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/president-obama-commutes-chelsea-manning-s-sentence-n708046) ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/65 "2017-01-17T21:48:09Z")
Can He Who Must Not Be Named rescind this, since it doesn’t happen till May? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/66 "2017-01-17T22:02:18Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Not a full pardon, but [her sentence has bee commuted.](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/president-obama-commutes-chelsea-manning-s-sentence-n708046) And that’s what I thought should have been considered, so I think Obama did right there. Full Pardon would have been…unpardonable. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/67 "2017-01-17T22:05:10Z")
I did not expect this. It will certainly be controversial. > **[Chelsea Manning to Be Released Early as Obama Commutes Sentence (Published 2017)](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/us/politics/obama-commutes-bulk-of-chelsea-mannings-sentence.html)** > > The Army intelligence analyst convicted in a 2010 leak of security documents is set to be freed this May instead of in 2045. Edited to add: obviously the title should say “Chelsea”. Maybe a mod can fix it. Damned autocorrect. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/68 "2017-01-17T22:08:05Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Can He Who Must Not Be Named rescind this, since it doesn’t happen till May? He’ll want to know how bad a commute she has first. I mean, if it’s just a 15 minute drive each day, what’s the big deal? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/69 "2017-01-17T22:13:53Z")
Disappointing. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/70 "2017-01-17T22:14:24Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Can He Who Must Not Be Named rescind this, since it doesn’t happen till May? Doubtful; I think that would be considered a Bill Of Attainder. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/71 "2017-01-17T22:16:38Z")
I’ve almost always agreed with Obama but I despise this move. A traitor like Manning needs to die in prison or serve every minute of the prison sentence. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/72 "2017-01-17T22:18:13Z")
Trump will be tweeting his heartfelt agreement within moments. For my two bits, I see an emotional and psychological trainwreck, his chance for anything approach a “life” is gone. And I have never been improved nor my life made better by someone else’s suffering. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/73 "2017-01-17T22:18:51Z")
It is puzzling. I’m wondering if it’s even true. The NY Times is reporting it. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/74 "2017-01-17T22:23:44Z")
[CNN.com](http://CNN.com) is also reporting it. Decide for yourself if it’s “fake news.” ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/75 "2017-01-17T22:26:14Z")
Manning put countless American lives in jeopardy because she was mad at the Army for not “fixing” her identity problems. She doesn’t deserve to have her sentence commuted and I’m disappointed with Obama for doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/76 "2017-01-17T22:27:02Z")
Fixed title per OP request. Also moving to GD. Not evening referring to a politician belongs in Elections, people. Remember that. Heck, there’s already one here. I’ll just merge the two. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/77 "2017-01-17T22:57:20Z")
Is there in fact any evidence that people died as a result of Manning’s leaks? ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/78 "2017-01-17T23:05:35Z")
As with the Hilary stuff, I prefer transparency and eschew leak-blaming. I appreciate that and the drug conviction pardons, but it’s a little late to try and get on my good side Obama. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/79 "2017-01-17T23:19:51Z")
7 years isn’t bad. She could have served more, but not the whole thirty five years, and I think it’s partly the Army’s fault for letting someone as troubled as her in, in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2017, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003/80 "2017-01-17T23:21:40Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > I’ve almost always agreed with Obama but I despise this move. A traitor like Manning needs to die in prison or serve every minute of the prison sentence. > Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk She revealed information to Julian Assange, who is a huge American hero, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-president-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning/772003.md?page=5)