# Should professors instruct students in what opinions to hold? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 1, 2015, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-professors-instruct-students-in-what-opinions-to-hold/729577 "2015-09-01T04:20:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-professors-instruct-students-in-what-opinions-to-hold/729577/161 "2015-09-04T19:22:27Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Female, make me a sandwich! I You sound like a Ferengi. (which supports the liberal PC contention.) ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-professors-instruct-students-in-what-opinions-to-hold/729577/162 "2015-09-04T20:01:59Z")
I just wanna know what idiots think when somebody who says “female” or “male” when it’s damn obvious the subject matter is frackin human thinks they might possibly be referring to hamsters instead that have a hole rather than a pole or the reverse. It might or might not be “depersonalizing” but it ain’t frickin “dehumanizing”. ---
**Author:** ![Joools](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6de8d8/32.png) [@Joools](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joools)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-professors-instruct-students-in-what-opinions-to-hold/729577/163 "2015-09-04T20:47:23Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > I just wanna know what idiots think when somebody who says “female” or “male” when it’s damn obvious the subject matter is frackin human thinks they might possibly be referring to hamsters instead that have a hole rather than a pole or the reverse. > > It might or might not be “depersonalizing” but it ain’t frickin “dehumanizing”. I’m curious how four thread pages of explanation, examples, and data leads you to the conclusion that the problem with calling a woman “a female” is that it’s ambiguous. The problem is that it’s insulting. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-professors-instruct-students-in-what-opinions-to-hold/729577/164 "2015-09-04T21:34:31Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Speaking of race and dehumanization, another fun evolution I’ve noticed over the years is you’re a racist shitbag if you call anyone “colored” or refer to “colored people.” But now it’s perfectly acceptable to throw around the abbreviation “PoC” every other sentence. You know, those coloreds have been getting uppity lately. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-professors-instruct-students-in-what-opinions-to-hold/729577/165 "2015-09-04T21:36:10Z")
> [@Joools](#): > > I’m curious how four thread pages of explanation, examples, and data leads you to the conclusion that the problem with calling a woman “a female” is that it’s ambiguous. > > The problem is that it’s insulting. And the reasons given that it’s insulting? Besides the fact that it can be insulting because how it is being used. But thats not a function of a given word (for the most part), it’s how its being USED. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-professors-instruct-students-in-what-opinions-to-hold/729577/166 "2015-09-04T21:39:08Z")
A word becomes an insult when one has experienced it being used in an insulting manner. This is not something you can necessarily prove with dictionaries and this is exactly what is being referred to when one is asked to defer to the experience of someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-professors-instruct-students-in-what-opinions-to-hold/729577/167 "2015-09-04T21:52:40Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > And the reasons given that it’s insulting? > > Besides the fact that it can be insulting because how it is being used. But thats not a function of a given word (for the most part), it’s how its being USED. Oh, my God… you mean context _matters?!?!_ Well, that explains the confused looks I got when I said Labor Day was when all babies were born. ---
**Author:** ![Alkash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Alkash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alkash)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-professors-instruct-students-in-what-opinions-to-hold/729577/168 "2015-09-04T22:19:45Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I tend to agree with you about Micheal Brown. That he was a violent criminal. I agree that he fought a police officer and tried to take his gun… Somewhat tangential to the topic, but were you appalled and horrified (like pretty much every honest, open-minded person was) when President of The United States offered his condolences to the family of this violent criminal, but not a peep was heard from him in support of the police officer, who was found to be fully justified in protecting himself and the community he was sworn to protect? ---
**Author:** ![Joools](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6de8d8/32.png) [@Joools](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joools)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-professors-instruct-students-in-what-opinions-to-hold/729577/169 "2015-09-04T22:24:30Z")
Yes, that is somewhat tangential to the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-professors-instruct-students-in-what-opinions-to-hold/729577/170 "2015-09-04T22:55:13Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > The “male”/“female” thing is hardly new; from the early days of my medical training, more than one attending encouraged the use of “man” or “woman” in patient presentations for exactly this reason (“A 63 year old man with chest pain”). One liked to say that “man” and “woman” are both one letter shorter than “male” and “female”, and more informative in that they also indicate the patient’s species. I encourage my residents to do the same, but it’s hardly something I police for or consider a big deal. > > If something oddly specific shows up in a syllabus, it’s often a response to something that happened before. It wouldn’t shock me to find that the professor in question has had an asshole student or two who liked to sneer about the “feeemales” and she wants to get out ahead of it. > > I think there’s some value in limiting the scope of a class discussion. Consider this forum and our old friend **Libertarian**. In his earlier days as a poster, he had a talent for turning any thread about anything into a discussion about his utopian version of libertarianism. You’d start a thread comparing the various ways that European countries have implemented single-payer health care, and he’d drop in with “Why can’t we just allow peaceful honest people to pursue health care in their own way?”, and a page later it would be the same argument that was happening in every other GD thread. > > Similarly, if your class is about the experiences of people of color as expressed in literature, it would suck to have one Bill O’Reilly-type in there who would turn every class into an argument about whether white privilege exists. So I think it would be fine to head that off up front, but there’s not a good way to word something like that on a syllabus. “Defer to the experiences of people of color” is not quite right, but it’s a start. I’m quoting your very informative and relevant post in full, as I’d love to see the OP and the OP’s sympathizers reply to the points you raise. Specifically, it would be interesting to get their responses to: [ul] [li]your anecdote about physicians being aware of “man” (instead of “male”) as being desirable usage in patient presentations; [/li] [li]your comment about a pattern of behavior that many who’ve seen Bill O’Reilly at work are aware of–the casting of _everyone’s_ life-experience as somehow being about O’Reilly, not about the person who actually had the experience.[/li][/ul] For the latter, I’m not hoping for a discussion of O’Reilly in particular–but instead, about the mental habit and/or pattern of conduct he’s known for. That is, the defensiveness he displays whenever it’s suggested that his perceptions are not the only perceptions, and his interpretations are not the only interpretations. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-professors-instruct-students-in-what-opinions-to-hold/729577/171 "2015-09-04T23:01:28Z")
Incidentally, if Charlize Theron’s character on _Arrested Development_ could not have been described as a “female” (well, an MRF), then whole chunks of the third season would have made no sense at all. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-professors-instruct-students-in-what-opinions-to-hold/729577/172 "2015-09-04T23:13:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Actually it would be more like saying “I don’t have to beat you at chess - you’re a racist” as soon as you lose your queen. > > Regards, > Shodan I really don’t follow, could you use specific language instead of an analogy please? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-professors-instruct-students-in-what-opinions-to-hold/729577/173 "2015-09-05T03:09:17Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Since I love your confidence so much, let’s play. I’ll gladly debate you on any number of topics (this particular one, about university writing guidelines, is a tad too snoriffic for me, though) if we agree that the first person to label the other (“you’re a racist/homophobe/Marxist/whatever”, unless the person has already used the term in self-description) or try to cast the other into a group or “ilk” (ilks get a lot of play on this board, I’ve observed), instantly loses and must admit the loss and may be subjected to scorn and ridicule about the loss, to which they cannot reply. > > The specific terms of losing conditions are open to debate, as is the topic of the debate itself. I forget… is it okay to talk about Fact Club? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-professors-instruct-students-in-what-opinions-to-hold/729577/174 "2015-09-05T04:49:13Z")
> [@Joools](#): > > “Women” > > 1. Clinton far more popular among women of color than among white women > 2. There is no rational reason why women should be earning 78 cents on the dollar compared to men. That has got to change. > 3. UN Women is the #UN entity for #genderequality & women’s empowerment. > 4. In association with @NYTimes. Convening women leaders, activists & change-makers to share stories & offer solutions for a better life for women… > 5. 8 women who are redefining design in the Middle east. > > “Females” > > 1. RACHEL: “i don’t want to compete with other females for a man’s attention” DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT SHOW YOU ARE ON > 2. XXL: 20 Reasons Why Lira Galore Is One of Hottest Females in the Game > 3. Females only and I’m down > 4. It be the most prettiest females with the most nastiest attitudes > 5. All of the hottest females in the world. > > Can you see any difference in tone and content between these two groups of statements? The first group is from advertisers and news organizations who tend to avoid slang, plus boring white people commenting on politics, while the second group is from skin click bait sites and actual human beings talking to each other. I’m not sure what was dehumanizing or sexist about Rachel’s comment. It seemed pro-feminist to me. Here’s some cherry picking. **Female:** Hailey Parsons ️ ‏@HaileyParsonsRM If you’re a female who judges other females for: - not being a virgin -being a virgin - wearing makeup - not wearing makeup Fuck off A M A N D A @littleblackfox\_ Females should be empowering other females!!! Not shaming each other or talking negative about each others appearances. Cpt Dunsel ‏@bbkld5 NCIS S2 DiNozzo: If he acted/spoke to any female I know like he talks/acts to Cate, he would be pissing from his nose #asshat Candy Corn God ‏@LoyalLamb85 Mariah was a threat. No other female was writing their albums right out the gate/producing/and had the vocal prowess she possessed MrCompleterandom ‏@kszwartz RT if you are a male. Fav if you are a female. A$AP Rocky ‏@ASAPRockyTRILL Put a female through hell & she still love you ? keep that girl MRSPRETTYGANG ‏@therealashani2 I need a female to do me a favor I’ll pay you $500 DM ME ! **Women:** Joy ‏@2WANDA302 We Bet You Dont Have Hot Women In Your Kitchen Like This Mark Peters ‏@wordlust As a society, we desperately need better representation of women with different body types in my harem. мя gяєєи ‏@iGreenMonk I really can’t believe the price some women pay for sunglasses. I’m starting to think it’d be cheaper to get the kitchen window tinted. BlacB ‏@BlacB Women are evil Bruh Funny Quests ‏@Jems\_bond008 Real Women Being Very Naughty in Public Bo$$ Lady ‏@305miami6924 After today I confirmed I hate working w women & dating men. Maybe I should work w men & just forget about dating altogether TeBaby Baby ‏@DATDAMNTEBABY Mama told me not to hit on a women but I bat hoes in the mouth… * * * I know this is pointless because lots of people already think male/female is inherently dehumanizing and it’s a red flag for anyone who uses them. You could also say women using “female” when talking to other women doesn’t mean anything because they picked it up from the wider sexist culture. Or it’s worse if a man says it. That’s fine. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-professors-instruct-students-in-what-opinions-to-hold/729577/175 "2015-09-05T05:22:52Z")
And…“female” as a noun STILL doesn’t belong on a college essay. I swear in any other thread, 100% of you would look at this usage as an excuse to lament kids these days, “improper” English and the lowering of academic standards. But because you’ve decided it’s somehow the anti-PC, female is the hill you want to fight for? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2015, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-professors-instruct-students-in-what-opinions-to-hold/729577/176 "2015-09-05T06:10:03Z")
The “male”/“female” debate seems picayune in the larger scope of this thread, based on its title. _ITR_ seems to believe that restricting language is the same thing as telling the students what to think. As I see it, the underlying message of PC is to tell people _to think_ when they speak/write. A college teaching students _to think_? Unthinkable, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2015, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-professors-instruct-students-in-what-opinions-to-hold/729577/177 "2015-09-06T08:58:23Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > The “male”/“female” debate seems picayune in the larger scope of this thread, based on its title. _ITR_ seems to believe that restricting language is the same thing as telling the students what to think. As I see it, the underlying message of PC is to tell people _to think_ when they speak/write. A college teaching students _to think_? Unthinkable, I guess. Well, if there’s one thought that’s correct here it’s that framing an issue properly and dictating the type of discourse are integral to winning a debate or causing the social perception of an issue to change in your favor. “Illegal aliens/immigrants” vs “migrant/undocumented workers” is in fact the very example of this that we were given back in my high school US Government class. If you force people to use the latter, it paints a different mental picture and can actually affect people’s views of the subject. Dictating the way we represent things is a very powerful tool, and it’s a large part of the reason politics is so reliant on soundbites and (nowadays) hashtaggable slogans. It’s why people are “pro-life” or “pro-choice” and not “anti-choice” or “pro-babykilling”. I’m certainly sympathetic to banning slurs and hate speech. However, in a classroom context I don’t think it’s as clear cut where the “line” is on banning terms that aren’t almost universally recognized as such; because it does cause a very real power balance in favor of the viewpoints of the people dictating which terms are okay. And, I mean, the instructor has near-absolute power anyway so it’s not much surprise, but I do think an instructor needs to give serious thought in order to be sure that they’re not boxing their students’ thinking. They must consider what effect their rules may have in framing the debates that happen in their classes. If the class is “I’m going to teach you about racism/sexism/homophobia/transphobia (etc). I consider these terms bad, so they’re off-limits”, well, fine, the point of the thing was convincing your students of the course’s thesis anyway. If the class is “let’s have a debate on these issues to hone your critical thinking skills”, then you need to be much more careful about whether you’re giving an implicit advantage to students who opt to take certain sides in a debate, and weigh that against the potential distress the language could cause (that the debate alone wouldn’t). E: I don’t think males/females in specific is really a part of this problem, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-professors-instruct-students-in-what-opinions-to-hold/729577.md?page=8)