# Should Prostitution Be Legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 16, 2012, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-prostitution-be-legal/622067 "2012-05-16T06:42:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-prostitution-be-legal/622067/101 "2012-05-17T17:32:47Z")
I dont necessarily disagree with the OP, but it would have to be highly regulated because of the dangers of abuse. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-prostitution-be-legal/622067/102 "2012-05-17T18:21:56Z")
> [@Blaster Master](#): > > I don’t think it makes sense to legislate based on morality. What should legislation be based on? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-prostitution-be-legal/622067/103 "2012-05-17T18:25:53Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > I don’t see it. If anything, I believe working for a wage is commodifying individuals. That opinion has very little bearing on the discussion. What other reason to work? If there is no reward for work, why should one bother, a sense of societal obligation? That probably would work for sentient bees/ants, but we’re primates. > [@polar\_bear](#): > > Thinking legalization will accomplish this is an illusion. Trafficers and pimps will not vanish over night and they actually do serve a ‘purpose’. Except when those functions are attached to a legal and non-coerced industry, we can just call them “recruiters” and “bosses” as with every other field. > [@gamerunknown](#): > > What should legislation be based on? Rational analysis of benefits vs. costs, with an eye to maximizing freedom and minimizing coercion. What else? (before someone accuses me of being a libertarian, one might consider carefully that “maximizing freedom” might have multiple meanings) ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-prostitution-be-legal/622067/104 "2012-05-17T18:46:48Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Except when those functions are attached to a legal and non-coerced industry, we can just call them “recruiters” and “bosses” as with every other field. You can call them that already, doesn’t change the jobdescription. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-prostitution-be-legal/622067/105 "2012-05-17T18:51:20Z")
> [@polar\_bear](#): > > You can call them that already, doesn’t change the jobdescription. Certainly it does. There’s a world of difference between a trafficker (connotes moving objects illegally from one place to another) and a recruiter (connotes offering jobs to people). My boss doesn’t routinely attempt to get me addicted to drugs in an effort to prevent me from leaving his employment, or use corporal punishment on me when I don’t do some specific job task. The job description changes entirely under legalized prostitution. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-prostitution-be-legal/622067/106 "2012-05-17T19:00:36Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > What other reason to work? There are numerous motivations for [working](http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html), only some of which are related to personal gain. For instance, people thrive on [altruism](http://www.pnas.org/content/103/42/15623.abstract). There is some evidence to suggest that people will prefer a greater reward at a slightly more distant point in the future using hyperbolic discounting too. There are individuals that continue to work despite having enough money to live comfortably. There are others that incur pecuniary costs by accepting a lower paying job. One immediately obvious exception to working for reward is subsistence farming, where one works in order to live. That is the “free labour vs. wage labour” contention that I’ve been posting about. > [@Zeriel](#): > > Rational analysis of benefits vs. costs, with an eye to maximizing freedom and minimizing coercion. How do we determine a benefit or cost of legislation? Why is freedom superior to coercion? ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-prostitution-be-legal/622067/107 "2012-05-17T19:17:59Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Certainly it does. There’s a world of difference between a trafficker (connotes moving objects illegally from one place to another) and a recruiter (connotes offering jobs to people). My boss doesn’t routinely attempt to get me addicted to drugs in an effort to prevent me from leaving his employment, or use corporal punishment on me when I don’t do some specific job task. > > The job description changes entirely under legalized prostitution. Human traffickers - as they are defined nowadays in Europe - often just set up arrangements for people (not just for sexwork) to work in richer EU countries. These people will be there legally, yet still have to ‘compensate’ their ‘managers’ accordingly. I’m quite sure that if the US were to legalize prostitution, girls will need arrangements (get into clubs, have accommodation near these places, etc.) as well. Think of a poor girl in Detroit being told about the luxurious club in Manhattan. If I were to venture a guess to the biggest reason women will go into this business is the income differential with other available jobs. This isn’t your middle class neighbor, if she wants to be in this business, she’d already be a high class call girl. These will be girls who will ind it hard to start up on their own…hence the ‘managers’. Pimps don’t need to get girls ‘hooked on drugs’ necessarily, they are providing an easy service and get obscene amounts of money from it… and many girls are perfectly happy with their ‘manager’; who often is also their boyfriend/husband. Maybe the situation in the US would be different, but this is the experience from Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-prostitution-be-legal/622067/108 "2012-05-17T19:36:57Z")
> [@polar\_bear](#): > > as they are defined nowadays in Europe Those terms have quite different connotations in the US. > [@](#): > > These people will be there legally, yet still have to ‘compensate’ their ‘managers’ accordingly. This is exactly the same situation I’m in when I do consulting work on retainer under the umbrella of an employer–my employer charges a rate to the company under whose auspices I am doing consulting for, and I might see half of that in my own pocket. If I were more inclined to be business-savvy and market for myself, I could do it for myself, but I’d need to be established in the business first to command the same hourly rate and get into the same high-end jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-prostitution-be-legal/622067/109 "2012-05-17T20:22:01Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > “Theory and practice are the same in theory, but different in practice.” > > Sure, prostitution should be legal. Most everything should be legal. But I have been all over the world and have never seen a place where legal prostitution was managed well. > > The problem is the number of women will to do the work is well below the number demanded by the market. As a result, prostitution often (Always?) leads to women being forced into the trade. > > In the present (US) system, the police suppress all prostitution and so all human trafficking too. If legalized, the police do not have much reason to look at who is doing what willingly or by force. If prostitution is permitted, exploitation of the workers always follows. In all those palces you have seen legal prostitution. Would you say that the traficking problem is better or worse? Do you think prostitutes were more or less exploited in thsoe countries? > [@Lust4Life](#): > > It could also save marriages, if you have a wife who just doesn’t like sex but otherwise the marriage is a loving, functioning relationship, the man can quickly and easily relieve his frustrations without any problems. > The alternative, whereby the man gets into an affair for sexual reasons, but which later develops into an emotional partnership at the instigation of one or the other of the participants can then lead to a messy breakup with financial implications, and upset to children of the marriage(s). > > I can see plenty of advantages both for individuals, and society by legalising it, the downside not so much if at all. I don’t know if prostitution would save many marriages. > [@Scumpup](#): > > So, if you should lose your job, how much dick are you willing to suck to pay the bills and how much dignity do you believe you will retain while doing it? Unless Finn sucks dick for a living now, there is no reason he should suck dick if he loses his current job. > [@gamerunknown](#): > > It’s saying that prostitution can be undignified when women are forced to resort to it in order to preserve their living conditions. Byb living conditions, do you mean living standard or some minimal living standard? > [@FinnAgain](#): > > As for turning down clients, as a private business any prostitute would have the right to choose her (or his) clientele just as private businesses can do today. So I can refuse to serve minorities in my bar? Can a masseuse refuse to service me because I am not white? > [@jtgain](#): > > Why such a serious charge like rape? Why not make it like if someone sells me a movie ticket, decides they don’t want me to view it, and I barge in anyways? Why not make it a simple civil contract dispute, or at worst a battery? > > You aren’t putting sex on a pedestal like those puritans are you? And theft, don’t forget theft. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-prostitution-be-legal/622067/110 "2012-05-17T21:19:14Z")
> [@Damuri Ajashi](#): > > Byb living conditions, do you mean living standard or some minimal living standard? Actually, their living standard. If their rent and borrowing causes them to be forced into prostitution, their expenditure doesn’t really impact the level of dignity. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-prostitution-be-legal/622067/111 "2012-05-17T22:20:21Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So I can refuse to serve minorities in my bar? > > Can a masseuse refuse to service me because I am not white? Correct me if I’m wrong, but a business can refuse any customer for a valid reason not covered under Equal Protection. So for example, you can’t refuse to serve a person because they’re black, but you can refuse to serve a person because they are making you suspicious, or because they are requesting a service you do not offer or do not wish to offer at that time. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-prostitution-be-legal/622067/112 "2012-05-18T04:46:32Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > There seems to be a disconnect here. The notion isn’t that people shouldn’t have to work for their bread. The notion is that prior ownership of the means of production shouldn’t mean that others cannot subsist without wage labour. Wage labour is explicitly different from toiling on land in that one is providing surplus labour for another individual. There are alternatives to the endemic form of rent and property and the alternatives are not necessarily agricultural communes (which were a comprehensive failure in Cambodia, though there were extraneous variables at play). Well I left out the full explanation of my fiduciary duty to myself. Doing better than a position from which I may be easily coerced is at the top of the list. Achieving that can be rather difficult for a person with a long road to hoe, but the key to success in this is really setting it as a goal in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-prostitution-be-legal/622067/113 "2012-05-18T04:49:23Z")
So what happens in those countries where prostitution _is_ legal? Does it work? Are the women safe? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-prostitution-be-legal/622067/114 "2012-05-18T04:55:41Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > It’s not an obligation, any more than taking a job mucking out stables is an obligation. The only difference between legal and illegal prostitution is that you would be provided with the opportunity to engage in it for pay _if you so choose, of your own free will._ And, yeesh, what’s with the focus on “sucking dick”? As a fully licensed sex provider, one assumes that you’d be able to dictate what services you do and do not provide, just as McDonalds isn’t legally obligated to cook me a steak. My daymare today was the legalization of prostitution resulting in bosses and managers all over the country handing out orders to the effect of, “After you count the till and sweep the floor, step into the office and blow me. It is part of your job description now. You can quit if you don’t like it.” I know that appears to be sexual harassment, but once prostitution is legal how do we prevent sucking dick from being inserted as a clause into all kinds of work agreements? > [@](#): > > No… but we already allow women to serve as surrogate mothers and men can serve as sperm donors. So it looks like we’re way ahead of your fears. Yah well that stuff is highly regulated. And I meant ‘impregnate’ in the old-fashioned sense, and maybe while you watch like I’m some kind of horse since we’re talking about prostitution and all. But I’m not going to be marching in the streets over this issue either way you know. There are bigger fish to fry. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-prostitution-be-legal/622067/115 "2012-05-18T05:10:11Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > I know that appears to be sexual harassment, but once prostitution is legal how do we prevent sucking dick from being inserted as a clause into all kinds of work agreements? Show me that such quid pro quos are no longer considered sexual harassment in Nevada, and you might have a case. I doubt you can, but you may surprise me. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-prostitution-be-legal/622067/116 "2012-05-18T05:27:46Z")
The Marquis de Sade believed prostitution should be **universally compulsory.** Why don’t we start with **that** as our default position, and work back from there? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-prostitution-be-legal/622067/117 "2012-05-18T05:43:04Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > So what happens in those countries where prostitution _is_ legal? Does it work? Are the women safe? The thing is there are so many different types of “legal” and it’s difficult to make sweeping generalisations. The two models that seem to work best, from the health and safety standpoint, are New Zealand and New South Wales, Australia, both of which have decriminalisation rather than legalisation (the OP briefly explains the distinction) as well as enforceable sex worker rights. There’s some good research into both of these (see [Gillian Abel’s PhD thesis](http://myweb.dal.ca/mgoodyea/Documents/CSWRP/CSWRPANZ/Gillian%20Abel%20PhD.pdf) for NZ and the recently-published [Law and Sexworker Health report](http://nothing-about-us-without-us.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/LASH_NSW-Sex-Industry-Report_2012.pdf) for NSW), which indicates that there _are_ better health and safety outcomes under these models of decriminalisation than under either NZ’s previous criminalisation or under the other Australian models (legalisation in some states, criminalisation in others). ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-prostitution-be-legal/622067/118 "2012-05-18T13:48:03Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > My daymare today was the legalization of prostitution resulting in bosses and managers all over the country handing out orders to the effect of, “After you count the till and sweep the floor, step into the office and blow me. It is part of your job description now. You can quit if you don’t like it.” I know that appears to be sexual harassment, but once prostitution is legal how do we prevent sucking dick from being inserted as a clause into all kinds of work agreements? Honestly? Same thing that prevents other distasteful but legal services from doing so–it’s hard enough to find people to apply for “counter clerk at McDonalds”, no one is going to bother applying for “counter clerk at McDonalds, who also inspects the septic tank” or “counter clerk at McDonalds, who also sucks off the boss”, unless the offered pay for the latter two positions is commensurate with the added job duties. Especially since “prostitution”, if sanely legalized, will require a panoply of additional documentation and conditions, just like any other dangerous job. I’m imagining STD tests and no conflicts of interest at a minimum. Also, don’t we prevent it in the same way we prevent “you’ll also star in an amateur porn series with me” clauses in the face of legalized pornography? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-prostitution-be-legal/622067/119 "2012-05-18T13:53:46Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Actually, their living standard. If their rent and borrowing causes them to be forced into prostitution, their expenditure doesn’t really impact the level of dignity. Wait so you are concerned that some woman might be “forced” into prostitution to preserve her standard of living? I might be a bit concerned with women who sell their bodies to keep her children from starving (which is a highly unlikely scenario in this country) but it really doesn’t trigger my paternalistic instinct to keep women from prostituting themselves to make payments on the Lexus. At this point the woman has decided that gets more dignitiy from the Lexus than she loses from sucking cock for money. > [@Zeriel](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but a business can refuse any customer for a valid reason not covered under Equal Protection. > > So for example, you can’t refuse to serve a person because they’re black, but you can refuse to serve a person because they are making you suspicious, or because they are requesting a service you do not offer or do not wish to offer at that time. Oh, OK. I thought we were talking about something else. Like a prostitute hanging a “whites only” sign outside her bedroom door. Could a prostitute do that or would she have to service all paying customers? ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-prostitution-be-legal/622067/120 "2012-05-18T14:10:18Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Wait so you are concerned that some woman might be “forced” into prostitution to preserve her standard of living? I might be a bit concerned with women who sell their bodies to keep her children from starving (which is a highly unlikely scenario in this country) but it really doesn’t trigger my paternalistic instinct to keep women from prostituting themselves to make payments on the Lexus. > > At this point the woman has decided that gets more dignitiy from the Lexus than she loses from sucking cock for money. > > Oh, OK. I thought we were talking about something else. Like a prostitute hanging a “whites only” sign outside her bedroom door. > > Could a prostitute do that or would she have to service all paying customers? Everywhere I know of, it’s up to the girls to decide whether to take a client on or not; and that includes factors as race. If a girl works in a club, management might have a problem with girls that often refuse clients and might decide it be better if she didn’t work there anymore… How this exactly pans out, all depends on how you regulate the business. If girls are free entrepeneurs, they have the final say… if they are employees, they might have less choice (if they want to keep their job). @Fumster There are still pimps, traffickers and girls that have little choice about their work (working of the ‘initial investment’ of starting). It’s just better (as are the possibilities of fighting the former) than it used to be when everything was underground. Real data is almost impossible to find by the way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-prostitution-be-legal/622067.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-prostitution-be-legal/622067.md?page=7)