# Should public schools be managed and taught by the military? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 26, 2019, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-public-schools-be-managed-and-taught-by-the-military/834552 "2019-05-26T14:12:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-public-schools-be-managed-and-taught-by-the-military/834552/21 "2019-05-26T21:10:57Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > You can’t really talk about public education in the United States as if you’re talking about a monolithic entity. There are more than 13,000 school districts in the US and the experience a student has at one might be radically different from another. Heck, there are often radical differences even within school districts depending on which school they’re attending. I really don’t see any advantage to having the armed forces run our public education systems. I didn’t attend school in the US, but mine was large enough that for almost any given subject, any given grade would have at least two teachers. Same school, same PTA, same… but getting the History teacher who wanted to make us love History or the one who wanted his students to memorize “on which day of the week did the Battle of Waterloo take place” made an enormous difference. To this day I’m so happy that I got the first one. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-public-schools-be-managed-and-taught-by-the-military/834552/22 "2019-05-26T21:40:53Z")
Given that Common Core, a relatively modest set of national education standards got shot down, I doubt that military educational system would work. Too “North Korea”. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-public-schools-be-managed-and-taught-by-the-military/834552/23 "2019-05-26T22:28:42Z")
> [@chaidragonfire](#): > > No, not ALL of them, only the capable ones with the training … to do this work. There are approximately zero retired military men sitting around with the training to reform schools, certainly not 13,000 of them just to give one per school district. And if some of them amazingly do exist, who figures out that they are qualified? You? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-public-schools-be-managed-and-taught-by-the-military/834552/24 "2019-05-26T22:42:19Z")
If the problem is that teachers and school administrators aren’t properly trained (in discipline, conflict resolution, or whatever), then the solution is to train them better. If the problem is schools not having sufficient authority, then the solution is to give them more authority. None of this is made any easier by getting the military involved. **Bosda** , a nitpick: Common Core was not a set of national standards. It’s all state standards. A bunch of states all just agreed to use the same standards, without any federal involvement at all. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-public-schools-be-managed-and-taught-by-the-military/834552/25 "2019-05-26T23:07:34Z")
You are being too liberal. I think all teachers should be replaced with robots. All of the students must wear shock collars, controlled by the robots. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-public-schools-be-managed-and-taught-by-the-military/834552/26 "2019-05-26T23:28:34Z")
> [@chaidragonfire](#): > > This isn’t the 1960’s and it isn’t Vietnam. So why are you still mad at hippies? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-public-schools-be-managed-and-taught-by-the-military/834552/27 "2019-05-26T23:29:55Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > There are approximately zero retired military men sitting around with the training to reform schools, certainly not 13,000 of them just to give one per school district. > > And if some of them amazingly do exist, who figures out that they are qualified? You? So, you’re wrong. There are plenty of retired military women (and probably some men) who are well-positioned to make schools better. As for who figures out if they’re qualified? Fortunately, we have a system for that: it’s called teacher certification programs conducted through universities. There are some problems with them, of course, but overall they’re the best system we have in place for checking the pedagogical qualifications for teachers. And the veterans I know who work in the classroom today completed teacher training programs through colleges and universities and made their way to the classroom. The idea that we should bypass these programs, because military experience somehow translates to knowing how to teach both long division and interpersonal skills, is laughable. But of course there are military veterans who become great teachers, just like there are scientists and secretaries and fitness trainers and archeologists and actors who go on to become teachers. (And that’s just counting the folks I’ve taught alongside, or am). ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2019, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-public-schools-be-managed-and-taught-by-the-military/834552/28 "2019-05-26T23:46:08Z")
Does this mean I get to use an M-60 when dealing with my more recalcitrant seniors? Because I’d be down with that. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-public-schools-be-managed-and-taught-by-the-military/834552/29 "2019-05-27T00:13:36Z")
> [@chaidragonfire](#): > > All kids get treated equally, no special treatment. This is the part that made me chuckle. If it’s that simple, why not just tell the current teachers? But taking it a bit more seriously… How? What does that mean? If a kid has a learning disability is it “special treatment” to give them extra help? We already have an education system that takes disparate kids, grouped only by age, and puts them in a room with the expectation of their learning the same material at exactly the same rate. That’s crazy. And I’m a for,EWR teacher saying that. If anything, kids need MORE special treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-public-schools-be-managed-and-taught-by-the-military/834552/30 "2019-05-27T00:23:03Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > This is the part that made me chuckle. If it’s that simple, why not just tell the current teachers? > > But taking it a bit more seriously… How? What does that mean? If a kid has a learning disability is it “special treatment” to give them extra help? We already have an education system that takes disparate kids, grouped only by age, and puts them in a room with the expectation of their learning the same material at exactly the same rate. That’s crazy. And I’m a for,EWR teacher saying that. > > If anything, kids need MORE special treatment. For real. Which of these kids need special treatment? -The kid with moderate autism who flies into uncontrollable rages, but who has been getting much better at controlling them as he matures and as I give him very concrete explanations for what behavior is appropriate. Those explanations, and the time I take to provide them–they’re definitely not treatment I give to other kids. -The kid who solves every math problem I throw at her and is eager for new problems. The time I spend talking with her about how to formulate more abstract mathematical statements–and the time our AIG teacher spends teaching her advanced concepts–are absolutely special treatment. -The kid who watched his brother get shot, and who is suffering from PTSD. I give him a chance to go cool down when I see he’s getting worked up. The privilege to go out for a walk keeps him from acting out, but it’s special treatment. -The kid who missed 50 days of first grade, and who is way behind everyone else in reading but who’s pretty smart, I spend a lot more time working with her on reading than I do with some other individual kids, because I want her to be able to catch up. Special treatment. A military program in which we gloss over these differences would benefit whom, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-public-schools-be-managed-and-taught-by-the-military/834552/31 "2019-05-27T00:42:53Z")
> [@chaidragonfire](#): > > {…} only having to now do nothing more than to teach old propaganda from old text books. {…} Please, tell us more about this ‘old propaganda’! CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-public-schools-be-managed-and-taught-by-the-military/834552/32 "2019-05-27T00:52:33Z")
Well, they once sent a cop to teach kindergarten, so what could go wrong with this idea? ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-public-schools-be-managed-and-taught-by-the-military/834552/33 "2019-05-27T00:54:42Z")
Let me know when this gets to the pit… ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-public-schools-be-managed-and-taught-by-the-military/834552/34 "2019-05-27T01:58:12Z")
If teachers could call in airstrikes perhaps it would be a deterrent for potential school shooters. I would imagine someone who went though basic would have innovative ideas for student on student hazing, perhaps some kind of apprenticeship situation would help the up and coming mean girls. Collective grades in the President Fitness Challenge would be improve with live rounds. In class ADHD fidgeting wouldn’t be a problem after the daily 10 mile dawn jog with 50 lbs of gear. Science classes would be far more interesting with Semtex demonstrations. And hey, who else could handle a loud chaotic situation in a lunch room brawl like a Marine…with PTSD. I see nothing but win here. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-public-schools-be-managed-and-taught-by-the-military/834552/35 "2019-05-27T03:49:44Z")
> [@chaidragonfire](#): > > Bullies. > Pregnancies. > Rapes. > Shooters. I think all of these problems have probably gotten better since the 80s. Even shootings. (Mass spree killings are more common but I’m pretty sure that’s more than offset by a decline in in-school gang violence and the like.) Likewise, I wouldn’t be shocked if the average teacher has more training now. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-public-schools-be-managed-and-taught-by-the-military/834552/36 "2019-05-27T08:48:20Z")
> [@chaidragonfire](#): > > And yes, sexual assault is a public school problem. Just because it’s not splattered all over the “news”, magazines, and other outlets for such things, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen and it’s not a problem. Is it worse than the military’s sexual assault problem? Have at least 32% of female students reported being sexually assaulted while at school? Have 52% of active students who reported sexual assault experienced retaliation in the form of professional, social, and administrative actions or punishments? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-public-schools-be-managed-and-taught-by-the-military/834552/37 "2019-05-27T14:08:44Z")
Dumbest idea I’ve heard since I don’t know- ever? Particularly after a weekend of viewing “let’s suck the military’s dick” Facebook posts. The military has a specific job to do and as far as I know they’re good at it. To imply that means they can do ALL jobs better than anyone is delusional. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-public-schools-be-managed-and-taught-by-the-military/834552/38 "2019-05-27T14:13:28Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Welcome to the Straight Dope! I warn you, though, that when you start a post with such a blusteringly foolish and counterfactual sentence, nobody will take the rest of the post seriously. We will however read it all and discuss it for pages and pages … ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-public-schools-be-managed-and-taught-by-the-military/834552/39 "2019-05-27T15:16:20Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I’m ok with federalizing the education system and increasing standards and pay but even the department of defence doesn’t put solders in charge of children they hire professional teachers and it isn’t some miracle cure for the problems you listed. We did have armed guards patrolling my school growing up and concertina wire on top of the fences so I guess that makes some people feel safe but I don’t think that’s realistic for every school in the US. This seems to me is the realistic question, would it be better if the federal govt ran schools? I agree with other posts that the general idea of the military being given totally non-military tasks, presumably because it’s generally rated the most highly respected US institution, seldom if ever makes any sense taken literally. That’s even before examining why and by whom the military is so highly respected as institution. Ie, not by everybody, and moreover partly just in comparison to distressingly low confidence by Americans in most other public institutions. However I don’t think federalizing primary/secondary education is practically a whole lot more realistic proposal than the military specifically. Nationalized solutions for various issues work if there’s a national consensus what the problem is and how to deal with it. Probably few Americans would say primary/secondary education in the US is doing fine (though many more would say it about their local schools) but the Venn diagram of what various factions in society think are the most important problems I guess has fairly little overlap. All the friction from forcing 50%+1 voter approved one size fits all solutions on large areas and populations that reject them in a big diverse country itself can have a big cost\*. Federalizing primary/secondary education would be a poster child for that IMO even under the unlikely assumption it could gain approval in Congress during some short swing of the political pendulum to an extreme of federalized solutions. \*the mental model for federal solutions often seems to be (not saying by you) that a large % of people rejecting them should have no voice because they aren’t the bare majority, or those people should just kind of disappear, and then the assumption almost seems to become that they have disappeared, in any brief period one side or the other is calling all the shots, or that that situation will finally last forever, but it never seems to. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2019, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-public-schools-be-managed-and-taught-by-the-military/834552/40 "2019-05-27T15:35:00Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > So, you’re wrong. There are plenty of retired military women (and probably some men) who are well-positioned to make schools better. > > As for who figures out if they’re qualified? Fortunately, we have a system for that: it’s called teacher certification programs conducted through universities. > > There are some problems with them, of course, but overall they’re the best system we have in place for checking the pedagogical qualifications for teachers. And the veterans I know who work in the classroom today completed teacher training programs through colleges and universities and made their way to the classroom. > > The idea that we should bypass these programs, because military experience somehow translates to knowing how to teach both long division and interpersonal skills, is laughable. But of course there are military veterans who become great teachers, just like there are scientists and secretaries and fitness trainers and archeologists and actors who go on to become teachers. (And that’s just counting the folks I’ve taught alongside, or am). My point is exactly the same as yours. The OP doesn’t want the military to go through the process - the process is apparently what’s wrong. The military should apparently just be parachuted in and impose martial law on the schools. That’s what makes it nuts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-public-schools-be-managed-and-taught-by-the-military/834552.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-public-schools-be-managed-and-taught-by-the-military/834552.md?page=3)