# Should raw milk be illegal? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 22, 2014, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449 "2014-01-22T14:18:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/41 "2014-01-23T00:00:56Z")
I think it should be legal the same way raw meat is legal. We’re warned that it’s best if we cook meat to a certain temperature to kill all the bad things that might be present, but they still sell it raw. It’s not illegal to buy and eat raw meat. That choice is left to the consumer. It should not be illegal to buy and drink raw milk. Label it raw so people know what they’re getting. Then let them chose to buy it or not. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/42 "2014-01-23T00:18:01Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > It should not be illegal to buy and drink raw milk. Label it raw so people know what they’re getting. Then let them chose to buy it or not. It absolutely SHOULD be illegal to sell raw milk in the typical supermarket setting. Raw milk is a highly perishable product with an extremely short shelf life, and it MUST be collected and handled using the strictest sanitary precautions to minimize the chance of causing illness in the consumer. It’s utterly unsuited distribution by the sort of large commercial distribution chains most consumers rely upon to get their everyday groceries. If someone wants raw milk, they should either keep their own dairy animal or (more practically) obtain it directly from the farmer (either at his farm, or via a farmer’s market). The delivery chain must be kept short and the shelf time minimized in order for for raw milk to have an acceptable margin of safety, ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/43 "2014-01-23T00:18:24Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I am not uncertain about that at all. Children rely on their parents/caregivers to make the right choices for them. If they are sickened or killed by pathogens in raw milk, that should be grounds for criminal charges for the adults. Perhaps, my issue is that there are a lot of other, utterly stupid things parents can do that would cause their children to be sickened or killed by pathogens which are legal (such as not vaccinating them), that singling out raw milk doesn’t make much legal sense. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/44 "2014-01-23T01:00:43Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > It absolutely SHOULD be illegal to sell raw milk in the typical supermarket setting. Raw milk is a highly perishable product with an extremely short shelf life, and it MUST be collected and handled using the strictest sanitary precautions to minimize the chance of causing illness in the consumer. It’s utterly unsuited distribution by the sort of large commercial distribution chains most consumers rely upon to get their everyday groceries. > > If someone wants raw milk, they should either keep their own dairy animal or (more practically) obtain it directly from the farmer (either at his farm, or via a farmer’s market). The delivery chain must be kept short and the shelf time minimized in order for for raw milk to have an acceptable margin of safety, Well, I’ve never seen it for sale in large supermarket chains. The mainstream consumer doesn’t want it and much of it would likely spoil on the shelves before it was purchased. A huge waste of money for the supermarket. There are a lot of specialty products you can’t get at the traditional grocery store because the turn over isn’t enough and it would go bad. The stores have figured that out for themselves. I just don’t think we need to make it _illegal_. I’ve only ever seen it for sale at natural foods co-ops and farmers markets around here, which is where I would expect those who want to purchase raw milk to be looking for it. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/45 "2014-01-23T01:03:24Z")
A great aunt and great uncle of mine almost died in the early '60s after consuming raw milk. Given that they grew up on a farm, it certainly wasn’t the first time they had consumed the stuff. No one seems to remember what the actual diagnosis was though. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/46 "2014-01-23T01:04:09Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Perhaps, my issue is that there are a lot of other, utterly stupid things parents can do that would cause their children to be sickened or killed by pathogens which are legal (such as not vaccinating them), that singling out raw milk doesn’t make much legal sense. This was kind of my point when I brought up the raw meat thing. Totally legal to buy and feed your child raw ground beef. Totally legal to fill you infant’s baby bottle with Coca Cola. Totally legal to feed your kids [raw spinach](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2007-09-20-spinach-main_N.htm). Maybe we should make all these things illegal, too? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/47 "2014-01-23T02:35:31Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Perhaps, my issue is that there are a lot of other, utterly stupid things parents can do that would cause their children to be sickened or killed by pathogens which are legal (such as not vaccinating them), that singling out raw milk doesn’t make much legal sense. There are numerous other grounds for criminal charges on the grounds of neglect/abuse. Deliberately exposing your children to dangerous pathogens via raw milk is just one of them (if raw milk sales are illegal in your jurisdiction and you buy and serve the stuff to your kids anyway, that simplifies the situation). ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/48 "2014-01-23T02:40:54Z")
I tasted it only once and that was enough. It tasted like a live cow! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/49 "2014-01-23T02:41:45Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > I tasted it only once and that was enough. It tasted like a live cow! Would you prefer it tasted like a dead cow? ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/50 "2014-01-23T02:44:20Z")
^ You mean cooked? Of course. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/51 "2014-01-23T12:29:31Z")
> [@ktribe808](#): > > Yes, as a matter of fact, I have. Their farms are usually as clean or cleaner than non-Amish farms. I used to do ag surveys while I was in grad school and I have seen plenty of farms. The Amish are not a homogenous population. Just sayin. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/52 "2014-01-23T12:47:51Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > The Amish are not a homogenous population. Just sayin. But are they pasteurized? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/53 "2014-01-23T13:23:54Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > But are they pasteurized? Heh. I totally missed that. But seriously, saying Amish farms are clean is kinda like saying Catholics are good dancers. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/54 "2014-01-23T13:33:57Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > Also, I was under the perhaps mistaken impression that if it’s been pasteurized, then it’s been homogenized as well. Can you really buy - anywhere on this planet, not necessarily the U.S. - milk that’s been fully pasteurized but still has a layer of cream at the top? Whole pasteurised milk delivered in glass bottles by milkmen in the UK has a cream layer at the top. I don’t know if this is because it’s not homogenised, or if it might just be that the homogeny has started to break down in transit. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/55 "2014-01-23T13:42:28Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > The Amish are not a homogenous population. Just sayin. But are they the 1%? ---
**Author:** ![Kalimero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aca169/32.png) [@Kalimero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalimero)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/56 "2014-01-23T16:53:40Z")
I suppose only allowing sales directly from the farm / on the farmer’s market would be the best option. Having said that, even if it were legal to sell it everywhere and serve it in restaurants, it probably wouldn’t be that much of a problem. As has been mentioned, raw milk is highly perishable. Pasteurized milk is much easier distributed in an industrialized manner as it stays fresh for up to 2 weeks. Apart from that, the majority isn’t used to the strong flavour of raw milk. I would expect it to be significantly more expensive and somewhat of a niche product. So if your local restaurant had it, they would let you know. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/57 "2014-01-23T17:09:32Z")
> [@Kalimero](#): > > I suppose only allowing sales directly from the farm / on the farmer’s market would be the best option. > Having said that, even if it were legal to sell it everywhere and serve it in restaurants, it probably wouldn’t be that much of a problem. As has been mentioned, raw milk is highly perishable. Pasteurized milk is much easier distributed in an industrialized manner as it stays fresh for up to 2 weeks. Apart from that, the majority isn’t used to the strong flavour of raw milk. > > I would expect it to be significantly more expensive and somewhat of a niche product. So if your local restaurant had it, they would let you know. At our local natural foods co-op, it’s around $8/half gallon. No one is going to purchase a half gallon of raw milk by mistake. People who buy it know what they are buying. As for restaurants using it, well, it would be a waste to use it in any menu item that was going to be cooked or baked since that would effectively pasteurize it. Most restaurants serving meals where you might be wanting a glass of cold milk probably aren’t going to be charging enough to cover how expensive raw milk is. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/58 "2014-01-23T17:28:57Z")
What does it taste like? ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/59 "2014-01-23T17:36:23Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What does it taste like? The raw milk we buy just tastes like “the best glass of milk you’ve ever had” every time you drink some. I don’t know how else to describe it. It’s not particularly earthy or cow-y like some people have said. I’m sure it depends on a lot of factors, though, like what they cow is fed. ---
**Author:** ![Kalimero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aca169/32.png) [@Kalimero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalimero)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/60 "2014-01-23T18:07:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What does it taste like? Hard to describe. More intense flavour, mostly. A bit like a cow smells like. I don’t know whether it’s the lack of pasteurization or the lack of homogenization that makes the difference though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449.md?page=4)