# Should raw milk be illegal? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 22, 2014, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449 "2014-01-22T14:18:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/61 "2014-01-23T18:28:47Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > This was kind of my point when I brought up the raw meat thing. Totally legal to buy and feed your child raw ground beef. Totally legal to fill you infant’s baby bottle with Coca Cola. Totally legal to feed your kids [raw spinach](http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2007-09-20-spinach-main_N.htm). Maybe we should make all these things illegal, too? It’s my impression that the laws against raw milk were intended as consumer safety laws. Unlike the other things, raw milk is something one could unknowingly purchase. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/62 "2014-01-23T20:39:15Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > It’s my impression that the laws against raw milk were intended as consumer safety laws. Unlike the other things, raw milk is something one could unknowingly purchase. Only if they were too stupid to read the label or realize they were paying 4 times as much for something they usually pay much less for. Most people look closely enough at the label to pick out the fat content they want whole, skim 2%, etc., they should be able to read whether it’s pasteurized or raw. That’s what the labels are for. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/63 "2014-01-24T06:07:00Z")
Is raw milk really rich? I really don’t like drinking anything over 2% – whole milk seems too rich for me. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/64 "2014-01-24T06:50:59Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Is raw milk really rich? I really don’t like drinking anything over 2% – whole milk seems too rich for me. The brand we get, Organic Pastures, comes in whole or skim. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/65 "2014-01-24T10:17:30Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > Only if they were too stupid to read the label or realize they were paying 4 times as much for something they usually pay much less for. Most people look closely enough at the label to pick out the fat content they want whole, skim 2%, etc., they should be able to read whether it’s pasteurized or raw. That’s what the labels are for. Now? Sure, but the laws about pasturization date back to the turn of the century (though apparently Federal regulations were much later). ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/66 "2014-01-24T13:17:24Z")
I wonder if the people claiming raw milk tastes so much better than pasteurized milk would be capable of telling the difference in a blind taste test. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/67 "2014-01-24T13:44:37Z")
I recently bought some raw mile here in Texas- this is new for us. You can go the the farm and buy it, but the farm can’t bring it to you through stores or markets. The diary is inspected, too, which is nice. I could not tell the difference between this raw milk and the stuff I have been getting from the stores. Maybe it’s just me. The raw milk came in large, half gallon mason jars and had the name of the cow and the date and time the milk was collected. I guess some folks like a particular cow. I separated the cream to make butter and drank the milk. The butter was bright yellow and tasty, but went to ‘cultured butter’ pretty quickly even thought I ‘washed’ it. Ultimately, I didn’t feel like it was worth the hassle to drive there, the expense (it’s about the same price as organic from the grocery store), the hassle of separating it at home, and the small but real risk of serious illness. Surely, the milk was good, but I really could not say it was so much better than grocery store milk that I should make the effort to go get it and deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/68 "2014-01-24T14:18:05Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Raw-milk cheeses are legal for sale in the US as long as they have been aged more than 60 days. That time period allows the acids and salts in the cheese to kill off the listeria and other pathogens that are flavoring the cheese. Parmigiano Reggiano is a raw-milk cheese, as is some camembert, brie, gruyere, fontina, blue, and manchego. I think many, if not all, of the cheddars from the UK are raw-milk as well. > > I occasionally make cheese at home, and the artisanal cheese community often recommends starting with raw milk for all cheeses and pasteurizing it oneself, because you can pasteurize it at a lower temperature than commercial dairies typically use, and preserve more of the cheese-friendly enzymes. I don’t have access to raw milk, and I wouldn’t trust my own pasteurizing skills even if I did. It just seems like an easy way to sicken half the people at a company picnic. I wish I had access to raw milk for cheesemaking, since from what I’ve been told, it turns out better more often. But I don’t think it should be sold for straight consumption - its a specialty INGREDIENT for making something else. (It would also be nice to have easy access to lye for pretzels and saltpeter for corned beef). ---
**Author:** ![Jane\_Elliot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jane_elliot/32/6166_2.png) [@Jane\_Elliot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jane_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/69 "2014-01-24T14:39:59Z")
I don’t drink the raw milk, I use it for cheese & yogurt making. Although I did put some in my coffee one morning and didn’t taste a difference. But I’ve never really been a plain milk drinker, I prefer dairy products. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/70 "2014-01-24T14:53:46Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What does it taste like? You might say it has a _lively_ flavor. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![HipGnosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/76d3ee/32.png) [@HipGnosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HipGnosis)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/71 "2014-01-24T20:29:22Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I wonder if the people claiming raw milk tastes so much better than pasteurized milk would be capable of telling the difference in a blind taste test. I haven’t lived on a dairy farm in over 30 yrs. Still, everytime I drink ‘store-milk’ (which isn’t that often) it reminds me that I miss the real taste of real milk. I can definitely tell. ---
**Author:** ![ktribe808](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b38774/32.png) [@ktribe808](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ktribe808)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/72 "2014-01-25T18:42:37Z")
The taste of raw milk is very much influenced by the feed the animals are fed. IMO, grass-fed cow milk is the absolute best. Also, the colder the better and of course shake up the milk first. And yes, I did tour the farm before making my first purchase. I am impressed that they have partridges on the farm! The milk is dated and the bottles are sterilized. These Amish have generators for refrigeration and also for the sanitation of the bottles. Grain-fed cow milk has a slight aftertaste and I do not care for it. Same with goats milk. Pasture-fed has a slightly sweet taste and grain-fed tastes a tad bitter to me. The last time I was there I was amazed to see one of the older boys carrying several DVDs into the home. I asked him HOW he was going to watch the DVDs. Apparently they have a battery-operated DVD player! Cracked me up! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/73 "2014-01-25T18:46:03Z")
What exactly is the difference in taste? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/74 "2014-01-25T19:53:23Z")
To the op - it is well established that [greater health risks](http://www.fda.gov/Food/ResourcesForYou/consumers/ucm079516.htm) exist drinking raw milk or consuming raw milk products than do pasturized dairy products, especially in children, older adults, pregnant women, and those with weakened immune systems. The [CDC](http://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-questions-and-answers.html#risks) identifies raw milk as one of the riskiest foods of all visavis foodborne illnesses. That does not per se mean it should be illegal but it does imply that some regulation of it is justified, especially regarding consumption by children. Minimally it should be labelled as to its risk. Signing off on full knowledge of that risk at time of purchase also seems like a minimal standard. Feeding it to children IMHO should count as a form of child endangerment. Adults want to do something stupid? The freedom to be idiotic should be given a pretty wide (albeit not unlimited) berth. Go ahead, eat some puffer fish prepared by the sushi chef at some random storefront sushi bar too. Not my funeral. But there is an obligation that you should know that what you are doing is risky and that you not be allowed to impose that risk upon children. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/75 "2014-01-26T00:19:08Z")
Nutritiomist Carlton Fredericks presented a strong argument in favor of certified raw milk in his book _Nutrition–Your Key to Good Health:_ specifically, he asserted that pasteurization destroys Vitamin C, Vitamin D, and necessary enzymes in milk. And he quoted a passage from the _New York State Journal of Medicine_ to the effect that certified raw milk had not caused any known cases of disease in nearly 70 years. (Also noted in _The Book of Lists,_ p. 267). And an article published by a California dairy retailer, Alta-Dena Dairy, pointed out the more stringent hygiene requirements set for personnel handling Certfied Raw Milk as opposed to those set for people handling pasteurized milk. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/76 "2014-01-26T01:35:11Z")
[He’s not a nutritionist.](http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/fredericks.html) > [@](#): > > Carlton Fredericks (1910-1987) was described on the covers of some of his books as “America’s Foremost Nutritionist.” He considered himself an expert and gave copious advice in books and in articles for health-food publications. According to the FDA, however, Fredericks had virtually no nutrition or health science training. He graduated from the University of Alabama in 1931 (under his original name: Harold Frederick Caplan) with a major in English and a minor in political science. His only science courses were two hours of physiology and eight hours of elementary chemistry. He had various jobs until 1937 when he began to write advertising copy for the U.S. Vitamin Corporation and to give sales talks, adopting the title of “nutrition educator.” Fredericks described his association with the company in a letter to an FDA official ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/77 "2014-01-26T01:45:01Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > [He’s not a nutritionist.](http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/fredericks.html) Oh–so naturally what he wrote couldn’t possibly be true. Right. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/78 "2014-01-26T01:55:52Z")
It seems obvious that if the guy misrepresented his academic qualifications, then how can one trust _anything_ he wrote? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/79 "2014-01-26T02:21:28Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Nutritiomist Carlton Fredericks presented a strong argument in favor of certified raw milk in his book _Nutrition–Your Key to Good Health:_ specifically, he asserted that pasteurization destroys Vitamin C, Vitamin D, and necessary enzymes in milk. > **And he quoted a passage from the _New York State Journal of Medicine_ to the effect that certified raw milk had not caused any known cases of disease in nearly 70 years. (Also noted in _The Book of Lists,_ p. 267).** > And an article published by a California dairy retailer, Alta-Dena Dairy, pointed out the more stringent hygiene requirements set for personnel handling Certfied Raw Milk as opposed to those set for people handling pasteurized milk. Do you have links to any of this? There’s been a number of editions of _The Book Of Lists_ and the _NYSJOM_ goes back to at least 1909. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2014, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-raw-milk-be-illegal/679449/80 "2014-01-26T02:28:53Z")
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