# Should recyclers be more closely regulated re: stolen property? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 1, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-recyclers-be-more-closely-regulated-re-stolen-property/576856 "2011-04-01T21:28:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![flatlined](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@flatlined](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flatlined)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-recyclers-be-more-closely-regulated-re-stolen-property/576856/21 "2011-04-03T03:26:08Z")
back to the manhole covers. Yes, they do get stolen and I’ve learned of several people who have had serious problems when they didn’t see that big hole in the road. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2011, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-recyclers-be-more-closely-regulated-re-stolen-property/576856/22 "2011-04-03T04:16:51Z")
Oregon and Washington have eliminated cash sales of scrap metal. The person selling the scrap only gets paid via check to the address shown on ID. So the sale is linked to the person selling the scrap and they have to wait for the check to arrive and cash it. > **[Finally, Oregon may get tough on metal thievery](https://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/2009/05/finally_oregon_may_get_tough_o.html)** > > Following Washington state's lead, Oregon lawmakers > push an overdue bill making it harder to sell stolen scrap ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-recyclers-be-more-closely-regulated-re-stolen-property/576856/23 "2011-04-04T04:17:11Z")
> [@flatlined](#): > > How do I change the links to have cool titles? When you have the url on your clipboard, highlight some text in your reply. Click the globe-with-a-figure-eight icon (It’s really the world-with-links, but whatever). Paste the url into the dialog box and click Ok. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-recyclers-be-more-closely-regulated-re-stolen-property/576856/24 "2011-04-04T04:40:13Z")
> [@Eats\_Crayons](#): > > Manhole cover sure, but we did a home renovation in which we removed a second kitchen and a bathroom, and relocated the main kitchen and two other bathrooms. (Explanation: the house had been converted into a boarding house and some point, my partner changed it back.) Our contractor hauled quite a LOT of copper piping, some of it reasonably new, to a recycling center. True, abandoned foreclosed homes are common targets for thieves, but there is a lot of waste generated from perfectly legitimate sources as well. Construction waste will be mostly in pretty small pieces. Demolition salvage will have joints and fittings, and will show at least a little tarnish. Whole bundles of bright uncut pipe, just like whole spools of new wire, are obviously stolen–the only people who would legitimately have them are installers who aren’t going to turn around and sell it for less than they paid for it, and less than they could get by installing it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Why\_Bird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@The\_Why\_Bird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Why_Bird)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-recyclers-be-more-closely-regulated-re-stolen-property/576856/25 "2011-04-04T06:04:51Z")
I’m in the UK, so I’m sure rules are different, however: My parents run scrap yards for a living. They only accept trade from people attending in vehicles and record names, addresses and registration numbers. They would not accept something like a manhole cover or grave marker, unless it could be verified that it was legitimate (for example, the customer is attending in a council highway maintenance van and a phonecall to the council confirms they have been removed as part of works). They would call the police if someone tried to turn something like that in. Other things are more tricky to establish whether they are nicked. Some things that are valuable look like junk. They once had a bunch of dirty, old looking, misshapen metal cubes sold to them which turned out to be manufacturing molds worth thousands to the company they were stolen from (they were returned of course). Unless you were in that industry you wouldn’t have guessed they were suspicious. Equally ripped out boilers look the same whether you did it legitimately or not. They don’t I.D. every single person who comes in - some of their regulars probably don’t have I.D. and it isn’t necessary for the old homeless man handing in his bag of collected cans. But they do cooperate with the police, who are round at the yard ALL the time, and will often call and let them know about recent thefts so they can report it if people turn up with the stuff. They have been to court as witnesses more than once. Which really makes me wonder who the unscrupulous dealers are that do accept this stuff, and why they do business with criminals? ---
**Author:** ![flatlined](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb9ed0/32.png) [@flatlined](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flatlined)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-recyclers-be-more-closely-regulated-re-stolen-property/576856/26 "2011-04-05T06:58:37Z")
> [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](#): > > When you have the url on your clipboard, highlight some text in your reply. Click the globe-with-a-figure-eight icon (It’s really the world-with-links, but whatever). Paste the url into the dialog box and click Ok. [http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/claythompson/52418](http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/claythompson/52418) darn. ty for trying to help. I’ll practice more when I’m more awake ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-recyclers-be-more-closely-regulated-re-stolen-property/576856/27 "2011-04-05T08:44:37Z")
You can also hand-code this, which is what I usually do. Pretend the chevrons are the square brackets. Type in \snappy link title\. Now go practice in ATMB, which is part of the reason we’ve got that forum. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-recyclers-be-more-closely-regulated-re-stolen-property/576856/28 "2011-04-05T09:01:37Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I have heard this regarding other thefts, but it doesn’t make a lot of sense. What is the recycled value of several hundred pounds of bronze, versus the cost of fuel to melt it down? That’s a lot of natural gas or coal for a furnace large enough to reduce a moderate sized statue, which reduces any profit from recycling, not to mention the labor involved. Bronze isn’t exactly a precious metal. I’m not sure I am buying the “melted down” theory. Steal the smelter. Steal the fuel. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-recyclers-be-more-closely-regulated-re-stolen-property/576856/29 "2011-04-05T09:43:00Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Steal the smelter. Steal the fuel. Or, quite possibly, “already own the smelter, already own the fuel”, or at least be buddies with the guy who does. ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-recyclers-be-more-closely-regulated-re-stolen-property/576856/30 "2011-04-05T10:07:24Z")
As was said upthread, they don’t melt it down to blocks, they just use a blowtorch and singe all identifiable markings off of it so they scrap it. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-recyclers-be-more-closely-regulated-re-stolen-property/576856/31 "2011-04-05T14:42:09Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Speaking of which, there’ve been junkyard and scrap metal dealers handling “used metal” sales for about a gazillion years. When did they start being referred to as “recyclers” as though they were Al Gore’s handmaidens in the Green Movement? These are guys out to make a buck like a lot of businesses, and if there weren’t so many shady ones we wouldn’t be seeing such a plague of thefts. Scrap metal is the original recycling, scrap bronze was re-melted millenia ago. Those junkyards and scrap dealers are a crititical part in the metals supply chain - making steel and aluminum the products with the highest recycling rate of any products, and not coincidentally keeping the cost of steel and non-ferrous metals significantly lower than they would be if everything was made from virgin ore. Just because Al Gore didn’t invent it doesn’t take that away. Im sure there are junkyards who ignore the laws, and buy stuff they may suspect is stolen at a low price. Proper enforcement should be the first response - maybe LE can start by checking if they keep up with recordkeeping requirements. Most scrap dealers however have no desire to buy anything stolen and actually go to significant efforts to avoid doing so. For legitimate scrap yards, if someone shows up with a bunch of spools of copper cable, he’s going to have to show that they’re his to sell. For most other items, there is no such thing as “obviously stolen” - which is why the yard keeps records of who they buy from. Regulation varies with local ordinances, but is pretty extensive - and expensive to comply with. This makes it easy to compete for someone who decides to ignore it - their costs are lower. Unfortunately, enforcement tends to focus on the larger operations, who are typically in compliance anyway - and ignores those arguably most likely to violate, as it is not all that sexy to take down a one or 2 man operation. Like a lot of issues, better enforcement should come before more regulation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-recyclers-be-more-closely-regulated-re-stolen-property/576856.md?page=1)