# Should restaurants not have items above X calories? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 15, 2009, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-restaurants-not-have-items-above-x-calories/513876 "2009-10-15T05:58:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-restaurants-not-have-items-above-x-calories/513876/21 "2009-10-15T16:30:15Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > They’re doing this in New York City now. Any restaurant with ten or more locations is required to display calorie counts in their menus. > > As one of those curmudgeons who gets all uptight about damn gummint interference, but also someone who recently started assiduously counting calories, I’m not entirely sure how I feel about it. I say let restaurants serve whatever they want. People counting calories can either choose carefully or eat at home. Seriously, you just ordered the triple-cheese-bacon burger, large fries cooked in lard, and a Super-Sized Chocolate Shake. You need a calorie count to realize that prolly ain’t a healthy choice? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-restaurants-not-have-items-above-x-calories/513876/22 "2009-10-15T16:34:35Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I say let restaurants serve whatever they want. People counting calories can either choose carefully or eat at home. Seriously, you just ordered the triple-cheese-bacon burger, large fries cooked in lard, and a Super-Sized Chocolate Shake. You need a calorie count to realize that prolly ain’t a healthy choice? What about the aforementioned cesar chicken salad that turns out to be in the 1500 range? I don’t think people expect that. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-restaurants-not-have-items-above-x-calories/513876/23 "2009-10-15T16:38:34Z")
Ivylass, my cheap answer is that I assume anything from a fast food joint like McDs is gonna be a not-so-good choice. The less cheap answer is that’s suprising information. I still feel like I could make good choices from a regular restaurant menu. Chicken or fish, vegetables plain (no butter), etc. Or if I was in the mood to eat steak, ordering a smaller steak, not eating all of it, no dessert. FWIW, I’m not arguing against providing the information. I think it’s a great idea. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-restaurants-not-have-items-above-x-calories/513876/24 "2009-10-15T16:40:12Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > What about the aforementioned cesar chicken salad that turns out to be in the 1500 range? I don’t think people expect that. If you eat something that tastes really good…it’s prolly bad for you. Everybody knows that. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-restaurants-not-have-items-above-x-calories/513876/25 "2009-10-15T16:41:38Z")
Ah, yes, we should definitely choose food on the basis of whether we like it or not. From now on, no one eat food they like, since obviously it’s bad for you. We must fight the idea of actually having data available tooth and nail, and instead judge on the subjective criteria of… if you like it, don’t eat it. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-restaurants-not-have-items-above-x-calories/513876/26 "2009-10-15T16:42:34Z")
I think he was making a joke, dear. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-restaurants-not-have-items-above-x-calories/513876/27 "2009-10-15T16:44:18Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Ah, yes, we should definitely choose food on the basis of whether we like it or not. From now on, no one eat food they like, since obviously it’s bad for you. We must fight the idea of actually having data available tooth and nail, and instead judge on the subjective criteria of… if you like it, don’t eat it. Nice, but that’s 180 degrees away from what I’m saying. I’ll order the triple cheese bacon burger, etc because I like it, and I don’t give a damn what other people think about it. If I’m counting calories…I’ve prolly gone insane…but if I am, I’ll do it at home. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-restaurants-not-have-items-above-x-calories/513876/28 "2009-10-15T16:45:00Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > I think he was making a joke, dear. I don’t think so. At least his attitude on other threads suggests to me that he is indeed opposed to having a mandate to provide information for people because if people were more awesome like him, they wouldn’t need information to know what’s up. > [@Oakminster](#): > > Nice, but that’s 180 degrees away from what I’m saying. I’ll order the triple cheese bacon burger, etc because I like it, and I don’t give a damn what other people think about it. If I’m counting calories…I’ve prolly gone insane…but if I am, I’ll do it at home. So what? How does having the information available hurt you then? It isn’t 180 degrees away from what you’re saying. You’re saying that you don’t need calorie counts because it should be obvious based on the food you’re eating. I’m saying it’s not - things that seem like they would be relatively harmless turn out to be caloric giants based on the way the food is made. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-restaurants-not-have-items-above-x-calories/513876/29 "2009-10-15T16:52:12Z")
So, **Oak** , were you attempting at humor when you said everyone knows anything that tastes good is bad for you? If yes, my response is: “Very well, let us carry on then.” If no: “My bad.” ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-restaurants-not-have-items-above-x-calories/513876/30 "2009-10-15T16:59:19Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > Ivylass, my cheap answer is that I assume anything from a fast food joint like McDs is gonna be a not-so-good choice. The less cheap answer is that’s suprising information. That’s my point. I would have thought a chicken sandwich _sans_ mayo would be lower in calories than a hamburger. Having that info at hand would be very helpful. So, I agree the restaurants should provide the info, but we also need education so people know _why_ a 1500 calorie hamburger is not good for them. I bet you ask 10 Random People on the Street how many calories an active 35 year old woman should eat a day no one would come up with the right answer. ---
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-restaurants-not-have-items-above-x-calories/513876/31 "2009-10-15T17:37:11Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > So I was reading the latest edition of the book “Eat This, Not That!” and getting slightly annoyed at, among other things, their hysteria over carbs and the feeling I got from them that having an occasional soda would cripple even 112 pound me with diabetes. But one thing did catch my attention: their remarks that after calling out various dishes and drinks that were VERY caloric/fattening (e.g. the Awesome Blossom and some Baskin-Robbins Heath Bar drink) as “worst foods,” they were dropped by their sellers. > > I’m not sure what to think about this effort, and their pleasure in it. On one hand, it’s entirely customer-based, I’m sure, and not via government fiat. On the other hand, it seems pat-on-the-head paternalistic. On the other other hand, maybe they wouldn’t feel like they had to do this if restaurants and food manufacturers would just be honest (carefully selected box words and refusal to release any nutritional info are two pet peeves of the writers). On the other other OTHER hand, the book’s writers seemed like the type who wouldn’t rest until there isn’t an ounce of carbohydrate or saturated fat left available anywhere in the country. > > What do you all think? Any points or insights that can break me out of this internal conflict? 🙂 Yes!! C’mon people! Why are getting all wee-weed up about this period? The restaurant may have to post the contents, but the decision to scarf 1200 calories in a single meal is with me, the consumer. If you are too stupid to realize that: Catsup/Ketchup = CARBS Sugar = CARBS Starch = CARBS (and FAT if fried) Breading = HIGH CARBS and FAT MAYONNAISE = FAT OIL = FAT BUTTER = FAT RED MEAT = CHOLESTEROL EGGS = CHOLESTEROL SHELLFISH = CHOLESTEROL Frying = FAT Sauteeing = FAT Then stay out of a restaurant! Go to a library and get some books on nutrition. ---
**Author:** ![hd\_thoreau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@hd\_thoreau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hd_thoreau)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-restaurants-not-have-items-above-x-calories/513876/32 "2009-10-15T17:37:24Z")
I think that it should be the consumer’s responsibility to eat healthy when dining out. At the same time though, I think that restaurants should be obligated to be able to provide a nutrition-fact sheet to show to the consumer, if they are asked for one. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-restaurants-not-have-items-above-x-calories/513876/33 "2009-10-15T17:46:48Z")
> [@ministryman](#): > > Yes!! > > C’mon people! Why are getting all wee-weed up about this period? > > The restaurant may have to post the contents, but the decision to scarf 1200 calories in a single meal is with me, the consumer. > > If you are too stupid to realize that: > > Catsup/Ketchup = CARBS > Sugar = CARBS > Starch = CARBS (and FAT if fried) > Breading = HIGH CARBS and FAT > MAYONNAISE = FAT > OIL = FAT > BUTTER = FAT > RED MEAT = CHOLESTEROL > EGGS = CHOLESTEROL > SHELLFISH = CHOLESTEROL > > Frying = FAT > Sauteeing = FAT > > Then stay out of a restaurant! Go to a library and get some books on nutrition. I would say all those things = DELICIOUS! Now seriously, a lot of people are too stupid to realize that. You wouldn’t believe how many people eat at X Chain Restaurant everyday, then find out a single meal has 1,100 calories in it. Well of course! A lot of people don’t actively seek out information, and will never come across it unless it’s written in plain English in front of their faces. I think we should try to make information more readily available to people, even if they’re “stupid.” And hey, if they just find out today that their favorite burger from Carl’s Jr has 1,250 calories in it and decide they’ll eat it anyway, then we’re done here. I don’t think any restaurant should be disallowed from serving foods with certain calorie amounts, but I do think they should voluntarily offer nutritional information. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-restaurants-not-have-items-above-x-calories/513876/34 "2009-10-15T18:07:17Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > So, **Oak** , were you attempting at humor when you said everyone knows anything that tastes good is bad for you? > > If yes, my response is: “Very well, let us carry on then.” > If no: “My bad.” Humor with a point, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-restaurants-not-have-items-above-x-calories/513876/35 "2009-10-15T18:20:23Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Humor with a point, so to speak. Yeah, I interpreted it as “Everybody knows all the fun food (doughnuts or bacon, for example) is bad for you. Hardy har!” because, you know, a lot of fun food _is_ bad for you. That’s different from “Every enjoyable food in existence is unhealthy, and everyone knows this. Fact.” But enough about that. Everyone carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-restaurants-not-have-items-above-x-calories/513876/36 "2009-10-15T18:33:39Z")
> [@ministryman](#): > > If you are too stupid to realize that: > > Catsup/Ketchup = CARBS > Sugar = CARBS > Starch = CARBS (and FAT if fried) > Breading = HIGH CARBS and FAT > MAYONNAISE = FAT > OIL = FAT > BUTTER = FAT > RED MEAT = CHOLESTEROL > EGGS = CHOLESTEROL > SHELLFISH = CHOLESTEROL > > Frying = FAT > Sauteeing = FAT > > Then stay out of a restaurant! Go to a library and get some books on nutrition. There is controversy over whether carbs are actually bad. There’s controversy over whether fat is actually bad. There’s controversy over whether food cholesterol correlates with blood cholesterol. There’s good fat and bad fat. There are good carbs and bad carbs. Each person probably has a different idea of what is healthy and what is unhealthy. No food should be banned, but every food should have the information available, so people can make their own choices. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-restaurants-not-have-items-above-x-calories/513876/37 "2009-10-16T02:05:52Z")
So I am very careful about what I eat, but for a very special, once-a-year type treat, decided to go to Chevys (Mexican chain restaurant). Imagine my surprise when I opened the menu and saw [this](http://www.chevys.com/files/Che_MnuSFD_Online_Corp_v3.pdf). It sort of took all of the fun out of it. I agree that it’s probably a good thing to have nutrition information available, and would be a bad thing to ban certain foods entirely. There are plenty of people at a healthy weight who like a treat every once in a while. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-restaurants-not-have-items-above-x-calories/513876/38 "2009-10-16T05:01:34Z")
Maybe restaurants should be required to provide nutritional facts on demand, but I don’t think it should be included on the menu. And definitely not restricting the restaurant to foods below X Calories, or food without this week’s buzzword evil ingredient. It’s distracting and ruins the whole dining experience. Especially if you don’t go out to eat that much. And seriously if you are so concerned about the nutritional facts of a restaurant meal, then maybe you should just stay home and prepare the food yourself. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-restaurants-not-have-items-above-x-calories/513876/39 "2009-10-16T08:21:49Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > And seriously if you are so concerned about the nutritional facts of a restaurant meal, then maybe you should just stay home and prepare the food yourself. I don’t understand this mindset, especially here on the Dope. Somebody dared asked a question about how healthy restaurant food is. Well, if he really wanted to know, he’d make all his own food. It’s the same thing as saying “if you want to know if a plane can take off on treadmill, build your own.” And, seriously, your dining experience is ruined by there being a little pamphlet. That’s how they do it around here, anyways. You’ll also notice that the biggest offenders are usually fast food–you’re telling me you have a dining experience at McDonalds? Anyways. I used to think our town must be really progressive, as most fast food restaurants offer nutrition information. Or, at least, they used to. After seeing the little pamphlet places convered in dust for while, they each, at some point, disappeared. Oh, and, as recently as last month or so, McDonalds put their nutrition information on their boxes. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2009, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-restaurants-not-have-items-above-x-calories/513876/40 "2009-10-16T13:09:12Z")
The Heath Bar shake Baskin Robbins used to sell (and apparently dropped) had twice the calories of a McDonald’s shake of the same size - 2,310 versus 1110 for the 32 ounce cup. While neither one is a healthful choice, and you shouldn’t drink half your daily calorie intake unless you just broke your jaw or something, I don’t think one should expect the consumer to guess that two milkshakes could vary by quite _that_ much. Easily accessible nutrition information would be good customer service. Some fast food places are already doing this, with wall charts or pamphlets, though even within a single chain, not all franchises are equally on the ball. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-restaurants-not-have-items-above-x-calories/513876.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-restaurants-not-have-items-above-x-calories/513876.md?page=3)