# Should rogue states shift focus onto biological weaponry? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 17, 2013, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-rogue-states-shift-focus-onto-biological-weaponry/650563 "2013-02-17T01:17:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-rogue-states-shift-focus-onto-biological-weaponry/650563/41 "2013-02-25T14:24:22Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > You’ll need to revise your definition, then, or revert to “I know them when I see them.” > > I agree that American foreign policy has a lot of room for improvement. I do know them when I see them and that’s fine by me. It’s the actions that are important, not playing the slippery eel with definitions. Call it what you like. Illegal invasions, torture and extrajudicial killings (especially those that involve civilian damage and double especially those that take place in an supposedly allied country) are the actions of a rogue. The USA somehow feels it has the right to do things it would not countenance other nations doing and because it claims to be a beacon of hope it gets called on it more than others. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-rogue-states-shift-focus-onto-biological-weaponry/650563/42 "2013-02-25T14:54:57Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > I do know them when I see them and that’s fine by me. It’s the actions that are important, not playing the slippery eel with definitions. Call it what you like. I’m not saying there’s nothing to criticize, just than when you use terms that don’t actually have a meaning, it blunts the criticism. > [@tagos](#): > > Illegal invasions Unclear, the UN Security Council is empowered to rule on the legality of the war and has not done so, and the UN General Assembly is empowered to ask the International Court of Justice for an advisory opinion or a judgement on the legality of the war and has not done so. > [@tagos](#): > > torture Based on legal opinions that have since been reversed; a success story of sorts. > [@tagos](#): > > extrajudicial killings (especially those that involve civilian damage and double especially those that take place in an supposedly allied country) All killings in a war are extrajudicial. The drone strikes are justified as being military strikes pursuant to a war effort. Again, the legality is disputed. > [@tagos](#): > > The USA somehow feels it has the right to do things it would not countenance other nations doing and because it claims to be a beacon of hope it gets called on it more than others. I don’t know about that; people I know who support the actions you’ve condemned do so on the basis of the actions being reasonable, justifiable responses to the circumstances the U.S. found itself in after 9/11, rather than “my country, right or wrong”. I’m sure there are others who feel that way, though; it’s a big nation. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-rogue-states-shift-focus-onto-biological-weaponry/650563/43 "2013-02-25T15:19:47Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I’m not saying there’s nothing to criticize, just than when you use terms that don’t actually have a meaning, it blunts the criticism. > > Unclear, the UN Security Council is empowered to rule on the legality of the war and has not done so, and the UN General Assembly is empowered to ask the International Court of Justice for an advisory opinion or a judgement on the legality of the war and has not done so. > > Based on legal opinions that have since been reversed; a success story of sorts. > > All killings in a war are extrajudicial. The drone strikes are justified as being military strikes pursuant to a war effort. Again, the legality is disputed. > > I don’t know about that; people I know who support the actions you’ve condemned do so on the basis of the actions being reasonable, justifiable responses to the circumstances the U.S. found itself in after 9/11, rather than “my country, right or wrong”. I’m sure there are others who feel that way, though; it’s a big nation. Yes, well, of course you don’t see _yourselves_ as a rogue nation. I assure you the rest of the world certainly does see you that way. The damage done by this war, on the international stage, is huge. You may be able to whitewash internally with a people eager for amnesia, but the standing of the US has come down significantly. Over here you frequently hear the term ‘Monkey-land’ in reference to the US. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-rogue-states-shift-focus-onto-biological-weaponry/650563/44 "2013-02-25T15:35:22Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Yes, well, of course you don’t see _yourselves_ as a rogue nation. > I assure you the rest of the world certainly does see you that way. > The damage done by this war, on the international stage, is huge. You may be able to whitewash internally with a people eager for amnesia, but the standing of the US has come down significantly. > Over here you frequently hear the term ‘Monkey-land’ in reference to the US. Eh, give it time. Look at Germany and Japan’s rehabilitation after far, far more heinous actions, with no justification. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-rogue-states-shift-focus-onto-biological-weaponry/650563/45 "2013-02-25T16:24:45Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Eh, give it time. Look at Germany and Japan’s rehabilitation after far, far more heinous actions, with no justification. From The United States of America: "The Beacon of Freedom in the World! " to “Not exactly as Bad as Nazi Germany!” ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-rogue-states-shift-focus-onto-biological-weaponry/650563/46 "2013-02-25T16:34:09Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > From The United States of America: "The Beacon of Freedom in the World! " to “Not exactly as Bad as Nazi Germany!” Well, what do you want? We can’t undo things the U.S. has already done, we can just try to do better in the future. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-rogue-states-shift-focus-onto-biological-weaponry/650563/47 "2013-02-25T17:19:01Z")
Who is this “we”? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-rogue-states-shift-focus-onto-biological-weaponry/650563/48 "2013-02-25T17:54:33Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Who is this “we”? Americans who want America to be “The Beacon of Freedom in the World” and to hold a moral high ground. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-rogue-states-shift-focus-onto-biological-weaponry/650563/49 "2013-02-25T18:22:22Z")
You’re a bit late for the high moral ground. That shipped sailed at the very beginning of the US empire - say the Philippine–American War: > **[Philippine–American War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine%E2%80%93American_War)** > > American victory > 1899–1902: United States > 1899–1902: Philippine Republic If you’re not familiar with the USA’s involvement for the past 100 plus years in south and central America, in Asia and Africa, in the Middle and Far East, then you’re in for a pretty rude awakening… Or perhaps not: stay wrapped in that nice warm flag. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-rogue-states-shift-focus-onto-biological-weaponry/650563/50 "2013-02-25T18:48:13Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > You’re a bit late for the high moral ground. That shipped sailed at the very beginning of the US empire - say the Philippine–American War: > > [Philippine–American War - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine%E2%80%93American_War) > > If you’re not familiar with the USA’s involvement for the past 100 plus years in south and central America, in Asia and Africa, in the Middle and Far East, then you’re in for a pretty rude awakening… Or perhaps not: stay wrapped in that nice warm flag. I didn’t say _return_ to a moral high ground, but rather to hold one. While relative to the average nation, the United States has been a force for positive change and righteousness, particularly amongst its own citizens, the idea that it was ever some kind of pure, noble ideal-state is a mythical one. No nation ever has been such a thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-rogue-states-shift-focus-onto-biological-weaponry/650563.md?page=2)