# Should Romney's six month extension on his 2011 tax return be an issue? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 15, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-romneys-six-month-extension-on-his-2011-tax-return-be-an-issue/618880 "2012-04-15T21:02:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-romneys-six-month-extension-on-his-2011-tax-return-be-an-issue/618880/21 "2012-04-16T17:38:42Z")
You guys are absolutely ridiculous. It just shows most of you are so low class as to have never had a complicated tax return. Anyone who isn’t part of the McDonald’s and Wal-Mart work force will often end up with complicated tax returns and income streams from many different sources. By IRS regulation all of these entities are supposed to mail your forms out to you by Jan. 31st, in practice I regularly don’t get everything in until March, that leaves a small window when talking about a complicated tax return. Just the fact that Romney is using a CPA should tell you his returns aren’t anything like yours, most lower and middle class Americans don’t even need a CPA to do their returns (and a lot of the seasonal employees at places like Jackson Hewitt and H&R Block are not CPAs at all), major CPA firms regularly take extensions for filing taxes for wealthy people or large corporations. These aren’t simple returns so I find the fact that you guys think this is fishy to frankly be a sign of ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-romneys-six-month-extension-on-his-2011-tax-return-be-an-issue/618880/22 "2012-04-16T17:40:00Z")
There’s also absolutely nothing immoral about asking for a tax extension, the extension is there for you to use it. Romney most likely has already made payments in excess of what he will owe because most higher income individuals will overpay a little bit when they get an extension. But even if his accountants have lead him wrong and he underpaid a little bit, he’ll pay the difference at the end of the extension plus interest and any penalties–so it’s ludicrous to act like somehow asking for an extension is an immoral act. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-romneys-six-month-extension-on-his-2011-tax-return-be-an-issue/618880/23 "2012-04-16T17:42:19Z")
Also, the Romneys have already paid $3.4m in estimated taxes for 2011, a number they have made public. I can bet that the final dollar amount of his taxes due won’t vary too much from that, so I think a fair picture of his income and taxes for 2011 is already available in any case. Further, just asking for an extension doesn’t have anything to do with when he releases his returns to the public, he can do that anytime he wants. I imagine if he’s going to release them publicly (and he has said he will) he wants to release absolutely accurate returns. Because people like **BobLibDem** will probably say it is evidence Romney kills babies and steals money from the blind if he released a premature return without all of the information at hand and later had to revise it publicly. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-romneys-six-month-extension-on-his-2011-tax-return-be-an-issue/618880/24 "2012-04-16T18:00:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **joebuck20** : > > To me, it actually seems like this could hurt him. If he files in October, and there’s some damning material in his returns, he’s giving Obama something to bludgeon him with just weeks before the election. > > And if he decides to file another extension, Obama can just play the ol’ “What’s he hiding” card. Exactly what I was going to say. It might be perfectly reasonable, in ordinary circumstances, for Romney to file for an extension. But given that he’s running for President, it’s politically stupid. He’s just guaranteeing that his income tax filing is going to be an issue, one way or the other, two weeks before the election. That’s not a topic he really wants people thinking about in the voting booth. > [@](#): > > Quoth **Martin Hyde** : > > Just the fact that Romney is using a CPA should tell you his returns aren’t anything like yours, most lower and middle class Americans don’t even need a CPA to do their returns (and a lot of the seasonal employees at places like Jackson Hewitt and H&R Block are not CPAs at all), major CPA firms regularly take extensions for filing taxes for wealthy people or large corporations. These aren’t simple returns so I find the fact that you guys think this is fishy to frankly be a sign of ignorance. Yes, exactly, you’ve hit the nail right on the head. _Mitt Romney isn’t like us_. That’s the whole point. That’s _why_ he doesn’t want people thinking about his income tax returns. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-romneys-six-month-extension-on-his-2011-tax-return-be-an-issue/618880/25 "2012-04-16T18:06:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yes, exactly, you’ve hit the nail right on the head. _Mitt Romney isn’t like us_. That’s the whole point. That’s _why_ he doesn’t want people thinking about his income tax returns. However, it’s pretty silly to want a president who is “like us”. Most of “us” wouldn’t be good presidents. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-romneys-six-month-extension-on-his-2011-tax-return-be-an-issue/618880/26 "2012-04-16T18:07:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Exactly what I was going to say. It might be perfectly reasonable, in ordinary circumstances, for Romney to file for an extension. But given that he’s running for President, it’s politically stupid. He’s just guaranteeing that his income tax filing is going to be an issue, one way or the other, two weeks before the election. That’s not a topic he really wants people thinking about in the voting booth. You are aware, of course, that the extension filing doesn’t obligate you to file on October 15th. He can file in a week, if he’s ready. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-romneys-six-month-extension-on-his-2011-tax-return-be-an-issue/618880/27 "2012-04-16T18:17:25Z")
Yeesh almighty. Ignorance on the SDMB truly knows no bounds. He is probably not filing simply because he doesn’t have all of the info necessary to file. If you think Romney should file on time, then give me a numerical answer to the following: 2+x=? Is it 32? 4? 127? If you don’t have a numerical answer, then it must mean you are hiding something and are not answering only for political purposes :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-romneys-six-month-extension-on-his-2011-tax-return-be-an-issue/618880/28 "2012-04-16T18:26:04Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Exactly what I was going to say. It might be perfectly reasonable, in ordinary circumstances, for Romney to file for an extension. But given that he’s running for President, it’s politically stupid. He’s just guaranteeing that his income tax filing is going to be an issue, one way or the other, two weeks before the election. That’s not a topic he really wants people thinking about in the voting booth. There is nothing wrong with Romney filing for an extension. However, if he’s using that as a fig leaf for not publically releasing his tax return, that’s a political loser It’s hard to understand why Romney is delaying the release of his tax returns. My guess is that his return relies on tax strategies and shelters that, while legal, are so exotic that they amplify his diconnection from average Americans. Still, better to get beat up on that now rather than October. Obama released his tax returns this past week, and aside from the sheer amount of income reported they looked alot like a typical middle-class tax return. When Romney releases his, I’m sure we’re going to hear a lot about aristocratic tax dodges like the [carried interest rule](http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/01/19/145449117/carried-interest-why-mitt-romneys-tax-rate-is-15-percent) and obscure [gift tax exemptions](http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/24/reuters-tax-columnist-romney-didnt-pay-a-gift-tax-on-100m/) for the wealthy. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-romneys-six-month-extension-on-his-2011-tax-return-be-an-issue/618880/29 "2012-04-16T18:40:21Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > There is nothing wrong with Romney filing for an extension. However, if he’s using that as a fig leaf for not publically releasing his tax return, that’s a political loser > > It’s hard to understand why Romney is delaying the release of his tax returns. My guess is that his return relies on tax strategies and shelters that, while legal, are so exotic that they amplify his diconnection from average Americans. Still, better to get beat up on that now rather than October. > > Obama released his tax returns this past week, and aside from the sheer amount of income reported they looked alot like a typical middle-class tax return. When Romney releases his, I’m sure we’re going to hear a lot about aristocratic tax dodges like the [carried interest rule](http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/01/19/145449117/carried-interest-why-mitt-romneys-tax-rate-is-15-percent) and obscure [gift tax exemptions](http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/24/reuters-tax-columnist-romney-didnt-pay-a-gift-tax-on-100m/) for the wealthy. This is the point that makes me wonder. Romney’s tax returns have already been an issue. Filing for an extension may be perfectly legal (and as far as I’ve heard, everything he’s done with his taxes in the past has also been legal). But it throws fuel on an existing fire. It creates the impression that Romney has something to hide. It can’t be concern over the primary fight. Romney has the nomination locked up at this point. So maybe he’s trying for a gotcha. As I said, Romney’s tax returns have already become an issue. Maybe he’s deliberately trying to feed this in hopes that the Obama campaign will go overboard in speculating what’s in his 2011 returns. They may make accusations through the summer, setting up Romney to release his returns in October and reveal that he paid a whole bunch of taxes and did nothing questionable. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-romneys-six-month-extension-on-his-2011-tax-return-be-an-issue/618880/30 "2012-04-16T18:51:32Z")
1. An extension does not mean tax payments are not due on 4/17/12. He still owes his taxes in by that date or he will pay penalties. In fact, the guy pays quarterly estimated taxes, so he will also make his first estimated 2012 tax payment on 4/17/12. 2. It doesn’t matter how great his tax accountant is or how much he pays him; nothing can help getting in information late. Notably, we know that Romney invests in partnerships. K-1s are due to be received by partners on 4/17/12. For large partnerships, they are due 3/15/12. I just received my final K-1 on 4/13/12. How do you people expect someone to file their final tax return if they don’t even get all of the information until up to the date of the deadline? [IRS Calendar](http://www.irs.gov/publications/p509/ar02.html) 3. As already stated above, the IRS provides an automatic extension of six months. There’s not even a spot on the form to request a 3-month extension versus a 6-month extension. [Form 4868](http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4868.pdf) This is a minor political problem for Romney because the majority of people are either uninformed about the facts or too stupid to understand them. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-romneys-six-month-extension-on-his-2011-tax-return-be-an-issue/618880/31 "2012-04-16T19:02:20Z")
Also, it’s worth pointing out that Romney has released an estimate of his 2011 return. It can be found here: [2011 Estimated Return](http://www.mittromney.com/learn/mitt/tax-return/2011/wmr-adr-return) And, his 2010 return was filed on 10/15/11. It can be found here: [2010 Return](http://www.mittromney.com/learn/mitt/tax-return/2010/wmr-adr-return) Scroll down to the 6th page to see it dated by his tax preparer (PWC) on 10/15/11. He probably files it by the extension deadline every year. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-romneys-six-month-extension-on-his-2011-tax-return-be-an-issue/618880/32 "2012-04-16T19:02:20Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Romney has also been a bit busy this year. Almost all of Romney’s fortune is held in blind trusts so it’s not like he’s able to help prepare his taxes anyway. It’s not like his CPA keeps calling trying to get a few 1099s he’s missing. That said, I don’t personally care about his taxes. Politically I think he should either have filed on time or file long before Oct 15. It seems sort of silly to pretend it’s likely his CPA firm was just busy. He has tens of millions of dollars and is the presumptive nominee for the presidency, I bet he could have gotten them to rush if he wanted. He’s better off getting it out of the way; most everyone will forget by November. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-romneys-six-month-extension-on-his-2011-tax-return-be-an-issue/618880/33 "2012-04-16T19:05:18Z")
LN, that’s some of the worse political analysis ive read here. Romney would not expect obama to say anything about the extension because for obama to do so would be stupid for the reasons we’ve discussed in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-romneys-six-month-extension-on-his-2011-tax-return-be-an-issue/618880/34 "2012-04-16T19:07:05Z")
FD, who is pretending his Cpa firm was just busy? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-romneys-six-month-extension-on-his-2011-tax-return-be-an-issue/618880/35 "2012-04-16T19:49:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > However, it’s pretty silly to want a president who is “like us”. Most of “us” wouldn’t be good presidents. That doesn’t change the fact that people do very much vote for the most likable person, and that people tend to like people who are like themselves. And if Romney were in touch with the people, he’d know this would likely be a problem and could have headed it off. Assuming as everyone says that he has a legitimate reason for the delay (besides collecting interest on the money not paid, of course), then it would have made political sense to get that information out there before the story broke. As it is, I personally don’t get why there are institutions that can’t give their 2011 financial information by the end of the year. Why do they get to come after the tax deadline? That information should have to be available before filing. It’s not like your taxes include information up until midnight April 18. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-romneys-six-month-extension-on-his-2011-tax-return-be-an-issue/618880/36 "2012-04-16T19:51:52Z")
If Romney were just a poor, ordinary Presidential candidate (net worth $5 million or so) no one would care. If Romney had released his previous returns, no one would care. But the 2010 return had to be dragged out of him, and he still hasn’t released the previous returns, so it looks suspicious. All he has to do is promise to file and release the returns by June sometime (I bet his CPA would give him priority) and there would be no controversy. As it stands, I bet he doesn’t want that 14% tax rate brought up again while he is campaigning on how reducing taxes on rich people like him would make the economy whole again. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-romneys-six-month-extension-on-his-2011-tax-return-be-an-issue/618880/37 "2012-04-16T20:04:44Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > This isn’t an issue. **Taxes can be complicated, and brokerages don’t always give you the information you need in a timely manner**. I just reconstructed, from paper records, the cost basis for a stock purchased in 1984 with quarterly dividend reinvestments until a Q4 2011 buyout. It was a mess, and the brockerage was useless. > > A family member, an accountant, once had to hire another accountant to help him out. It took 6 months to sort everything out. > [@Terr](#): > > They would have it on time if I got them all the supporting docs on time. I usually don’t and some years can’t for various reasons. This year as I mentioned already,\*\* especially many extensions are filed because of screwed up 1099s from brokerages.\*\* > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > FD, who is pretending his Cpa firm was just busy? Well technically the two posts I was thinking of were talking about the brokerages. But it’s not a big point. I’m just saying it’s not likely the Romney campaign had a conversation where they said “well PWC hasn’t quite figured out these 1099s, so let’s file for the extension.” If it was important to them politically they’d have gotten the work done. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-romneys-six-month-extension-on-his-2011-tax-return-be-an-issue/618880/38 "2012-04-16T20:14:44Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Assuming as everyone says that he has a legitimate reason for the delay (besides collecting interest on the money not paid, of course), then it would have made political sense to get that information out there before the story broke. Like has already been said, this is not Romney not paying his 2011 taxes on time; it is not filing the final return on time. The actual tax payments are still due and presumably will be paid by the 4/17/12 deadline. If not, he will pay a penalty. > [@BigT](#): > > As it is, I personally don’t get why there are institutions that can’t give their 2011 financial information by the end of the year. Why do they get to come after the tax deadline? That information should have to be available before filing. It’s not like your taxes include information up until midnight April 18. Because it is not just financial information. Some of what he is waiting on are the tax returns of companies. If you own an interest in a partnership, the information you need to file your tax returns is based upon their tax returns. Until their returns are ready to be filed, yours cannot logically be ready to be filed. Theirs aren’t due until 4/17. It really is just a waiting game. ---
**Author:** ![LonghornDave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-romneys-six-month-extension-on-his-2011-tax-return-be-an-issue/618880/39 "2012-04-16T20:20:54Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > All he has to do is promise to file and release the returns by June sometime (I bet his CPA would give him priority) and there would be no controversy. > As it stands, I bet he doesn’t want that 14% tax rate brought up again while he is campaigning on how reducing taxes on rich people like him would make the economy whole again. It’s pretty easy to see what he expects his 2011 effective tax rate to be: $3,226,623 tax / $20,901,075 AGI = 15.4% It’s right there on his estimated 2011 tax return. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-romneys-six-month-extension-on-his-2011-tax-return-be-an-issue/618880/40 "2012-04-16T20:35:54Z")
So why is he delaying getting his partnerships ready, then? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-romneys-six-month-extension-on-his-2011-tax-return-be-an-issue/618880.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-romneys-six-month-extension-on-his-2011-tax-return-be-an-issue/618880.md?page=3)