# Should Scientology be destroyed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 11, 2011, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-scientology-be-destroyed/599263 "2011-10-11T04:59:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-scientology-be-destroyed/599263/61 "2011-10-12T03:42:19Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > How does that follow. Religion is inculcated in children for the purpose of keeping them in the faith. Teaching them arithmetic does not do that, Nor will reading skills do that. What about politics, history, and culture? In school we all learned stuff about America that was just as false as any religious teaching and its purpose was no different. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-scientology-be-destroyed/599263/62 "2011-10-12T13:43:51Z")
I don’t see why Scientology is any different from other religions. Maybe it is, I haven’t studied the subject. All I hear is vague rumors about law suits, and forcing people to do things they don’t want to do. Are Scientologist breaking the law? Then they should be dealt with by the law. Are they forcing people to join? I would be curious how they are doing that legally. In the end, the whole thing just sounds like the major religious groups griping about the new guy for having a better model and cutting into their business. It is the business of religion and the majors don’t like the lost revenue. That is competition in America. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-scientology-be-destroyed/599263/63 "2011-10-12T13:55:10Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It’s the difference between teaching them that George Washington was the first President of the United States, and teaching them that George Washington had heat vision and could heal the sick by sprinkling plutonium on them. Oh here comes another brain-dead atheist.😃 There wasn’t even a single time where Washington sprinkled plutonium over someone \*\*without \*\*miraculously curing them. Not one single time… You can’t prove the non-existanc…🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-scientology-be-destroyed/599263/64 "2011-10-12T13:56:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > What about politics, history, and culture? In school we all learned stuff about America that was just as false as any religious teaching and its purpose was no different. “Just as false as any religious teaching”? Not even close. Outside of _maybe_ some of the craziest dictatorships you aren’t going to see history taught that’s even _remotely_ as psychotic as typical religious beliefs. They didn’t teach me in school that Columbus discovered Narnia or that _The Lord of the Rings_ is a documentary. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-scientology-be-destroyed/599263/65 "2011-10-12T14:26:32Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Not even close. Outside of _maybe_ some of the craziest dictatorships you aren’t going to see history taught that’s even _remotely_ as psychotic as typical religious beliefs. Have you noticed that you keep introducing new terms to explain how falsehoods about religion are different from falsehoods about anything else? First it was that religion was full of blatant lies and taught things that are impossible, which also happens in history class, now it’s that it’s psychotic. What does it matter if the teachings are impossible? If they’re false, they’re false. I admit “George Washington chopped down a cherry tree and confessed” and “Paul Revere said ‘the British are coming’” are not impossible, but they’re untrue and it’s intended to do the same things religion does - to indoctrinate children. Columbus discovering America would probably qualify as impossible since there were large numbers of people already living everywhere he went, nevermind that he wasn’t the first European to come to the continent either. The distinctions you’re drawing are irrelevant, and using scare words does not make them more convincing. I think Scientology is crap and I’m opposed to teaching lies to children, but making up a separate category for religion based on irrelevancies doesn’t accomplish anything. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-scientology-be-destroyed/599263/66 "2011-10-12T14:36:53Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Have you noticed that you keep introducing new terms to explain how falsehoods about religion are different from falsehoods about anything else? First it was that religion was full of blatant lies and taught things that are impossible, which also happens in history class, now it’s that it’s psychotic. Because as I already said, you keep trying to nitpick and redefine the phrases I use so as to defend the privileged status of religion. > [@Marley23](#): > > What does it matter if the teachings are impossible? Because it teaches people at an impressionable age to reject logic and rationality. It teaches them to believe things that are insane, not just wrong. That warps their judgment in general not just on the subject of religion. Even if they reject those particular lies at a later age, their minds are still damaged and they’ll probably just latch onto some other form of lunacy. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-scientology-be-destroyed/599263/67 "2011-10-12T14:59:10Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Because as I already said, you keep trying to nitpick and redefine the phrases I use so as to defend the privileged status of religion. I’m not giving religion a privileged status. I’m saying it’s similar to other kinds of nonsense that are taught to children and you’re saying it isn’t. > [@](#): > > Because it teaches people at an impressionable age to reject logic and rationality. So do folk tales and other historical myths. > [@](#): > > It teaches them to believe things that are insane, not just wrong. Your definition of insane and psychotic have never been most people’s. > [@](#): > > Even if they reject those particular lies at a later age, their minds are still damaged and they’ll probably just latch onto some other form of lunacy. And the same goes for lunacy, and this is getting further and further off topic. If you want to start a new thread about this, go ahead. I won’t be posting about it again here. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-scientology-be-destroyed/599263/68 "2011-10-12T15:27:57Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Ok, but not all are scams in the sense of having the purpose of seperating people from their money by blackmailing them. Several do, though, by requiring tithing (or strongly coercing). Just one example:[An ex-Mormom website on tithing](http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_tithing_section1.html). ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-scientology-be-destroyed/599263/69 "2011-10-12T15:43:30Z")
If you speak out against Mormonism, does the Mormon church _sue_ you? ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-scientology-be-destroyed/599263/70 "2011-10-12T16:36:25Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > If you speak out against Mormonism, does the Mormon church _sue_ you? Is that question for me? I don’t think threat of a lawsuit is the only way to force people into giving you money. The Mormom church teaches that [in order to escape damnation](http://www.mrm.org/tithing), tithing is necessary. From that link: > [@](#): > > A recommend is granted only when the Mormon has been found faithful in numerous categories, including tithe-paying. If a Mormon does not pay his tithes, he cannot get a recommend. If he cannot get a recommend, he cannot go to the temple. If he cannot go to the temple, he cannot go to the celestial kingdom; hence he receives damnation in the next life. Consequently, if the Mormon wants to escape damnation, he is compelled to pay up, whether he likes it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-scientology-be-destroyed/599263/71 "2011-10-12T16:38:55Z")
He could just stop being a Mormon. All Pastafarians go to heaven. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-scientology-be-destroyed/599263/72 "2011-10-12T16:51:21Z")
Tithing is just not the same. The Scientologists actually take advantage of America’s legal system to scam people. They sic lawyers on people; they tie up the government with nuisance lawsuits. These bastards have to be stopped. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-scientology-be-destroyed/599263/73 "2011-10-12T16:57:28Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Tithing is just not the same. Yes, it’s much more successful. > [@](#): > > The Scientologists actually take advantage of America’s legal system to scam people. They sic lawyers on people; they tie up the government with nuisance lawsuits. These bastards have to be stopped. Complete the sentence, please: “These bastards have to be stopped, because otherwise, \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_.” ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-scientology-be-destroyed/599263/74 "2011-10-12T17:31:49Z")
Because what they’re doing is evil? Isn’t that enough reason? If they can’t be stopped by the law, then they should be stopped by extra-legal means, such as what Anonymous does. Why are you so sympathetic to them? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-scientology-be-destroyed/599263/75 "2011-10-12T17:48:56Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Because what they’re doing is evil? Isn’t that enough reason? I’m not sure it is. Scientology is unsubtle in its maliciousness, but it’s also tiny. It’s harmed far fewer people than most other religions. Does the fact that the harm those other religions do is kinda sorta unintentional really make a difference to you? Or the fact that other religions don’t use the legal system to harrass people, they just abuse people by threatening them with eternal torment? Scientology will take any moron who can pay. The Christianity and Islam launched Crusades and wars of conquest and allowed slavery, all the Abrahamic religions are incredibly sexist (at least in their stricter forms), Hinduism has suttee, and I think it’s a point of contention in Buddhism as to whether women can reach enlightenment, and the Mormon Church didn’t treat black people like human beings until a couple of decades ago. > [@](#): > > Why are you so sympathetic to them? Sympathetic? I don’t think their stupid bullshit is much difference from the stupid bullshit a lot of other religions do. I think their mythology is goofy, and with older religions you can at least understand where the nonsense came from- although that’s partly because you’ve heard the mythology a thousand times. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-scientology-be-destroyed/599263/76 "2011-10-12T18:22:37Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t think their stupid bullshit is much difference from the stupid bullshit a lot of other religions do. I think their mythology is goofy, and with older religions you can at least understand where the nonsense came from- although that’s partly because you’ve heard the mythology a thousand times. Yep. I have a friend who is into Wicca/Paganism/whatever. _She thinks she’s a witch._ Seriously. I know people who confess their sins to someone who then absolves them. Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-scientology-be-destroyed/599263/77 "2011-10-12T18:35:51Z")
Maybe we should destroy society, which allows people to be routinely raised and brainwashed into believing all this religious bullshit. Personally, I think Scientology should get some extra credit because their beliefs are even wackier, and far more amusing, than most religious beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-scientology-be-destroyed/599263/78 "2011-10-12T20:38:27Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That warps their judgment in general not just on the subject of religion. Even if they reject those particular lies at a later age, their minds are still damaged and they’ll probably just latch onto some other form of lunacy. Glad you were here to tell me religion damaged my mind. And here I thought it was rotted by TV and mindless science fiction and fantasy. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Hbns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hbns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hbns)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-scientology-be-destroyed/599263/79 "2011-10-12T20:42:20Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m not sure it is. Scientology is unsubtle in its maliciousness, but it’s also tiny. It’s harmed far fewer people than most other religions. Charles Manson harmed far fewer than most other religions. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-scientology-be-destroyed/599263/80 "2011-10-12T21:02:19Z")
> [@Hbns](#): > > Charles Manson harmed far fewer than most other religions. :rolleyes: Manson is in jail for his role in murdering several people, not for leading a shitty religion (and I’m not sure you can call it that anyway). That’s the whole point: society already has the tools to punish Scientologists who break the law. They should be put in prison like Hubbard’s wife was when she participated in Operation Snow White. So society doesn’t need to destroy Scientology. Even suggesting the group is a threat plays into their delusions of grandeur and persecution. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-scientology-be-destroyed/599263.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-scientology-be-destroyed/599263.md?page=5)