# Should someone on probation be allowed to keep lottery winnings? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 30, 2007, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-on-probation-be-allowed-to-keep-lottery-winnings/428257 "2007-11-30T00:51:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-on-probation-be-allowed-to-keep-lottery-winnings/428257/41 "2007-12-01T14:12:48Z")
Actually, between the two articles in the OP, and in spite of their headlines, the only person saying he shouldn’t get to keep his winnings is the person who was ringing a bell for the Salvation Army outside the store where he bought the ticket. I wonder if you need a law degree to qualify as a bell ringer… ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-on-probation-be-allowed-to-keep-lottery-winnings/428257/42 "2007-12-01T14:26:41Z")
[QUOTE=Stratocaster] The bank robbery money is the result of a crime. It belongs to someone. [/QUOTE] It may not be a crime, but it does deprive someone who is legally entitled the opportunity of winning that money. As a lottery player, I would be upset if the winners were soaking up the winning tickets when they aren’t even entitled to them. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-on-probation-be-allowed-to-keep-lottery-winnings/428257/43 "2007-12-01T14:27:12Z")
[QUOTE=Stratocaster] Another “me too” to the notion that if the law dictates that winnings will be forfeited, then too bad, no money for the winner. If not, he should be subject to the penalties associated with probation violation, bu the money is his. [/QUOTE] Exactly. The state can’t go around taking stuff from you just because it suits them to do so. They need the legal authority to do so. A government of laws, not men, and all of that stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Danimal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Danimal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danimal)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-on-probation-be-allowed-to-keep-lottery-winnings/428257/44 "2007-12-01T14:37:54Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Violating probation is against the law. [/QUOTE] No, it’s not. At least not so far as I can find in the [Massachusetts General Laws](http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/) . They can send him to prison _for bank robbery_ because he violated the terms of his probation, but they can’t try him, convict him, or add so much as a single minute to his sentence for any crime called “violation of probation terms” or the equivalent. Ergo, violating his probation wasn’t a crime, and he may legally profit thereby. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-on-probation-be-allowed-to-keep-lottery-winnings/428257/45 "2007-12-01T15:39:26Z")
Actually, I believe most state lottos have a condition in them that the holder of the winning ticket must be legally eligible to have a lotto ticket. i.e. no minors, no dead people, and possibly no folks who are under state supervision which does not allow them to gamble or purchase lottery tickets. If that’s the case, then the State Lottery would have proper grounds for not handing over the money, and just recycling it into the next drawing. I need to research that a little further… ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-on-probation-be-allowed-to-keep-lottery-winnings/428257/46 "2007-12-01T15:51:27Z")
Well, all I found were sites that said one had to be over 18 to buy a ticket, but most sites had a disclaimer that said that relevant state laws also applied to conditions of payout and player eligibility, but didn’t specify what those conditions were. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-on-probation-be-allowed-to-keep-lottery-winnings/428257/47 "2007-12-01T15:53:16Z")
Unless QTM is right, I agree that the Lotto needs to hand over the money. The State can put him in jail for violating the terms of his probation but the money is his. The fact that it is a term of probation does not make his purchase of a ticket illegal it just means that by doing so he is in violation of his probation. Probation is an agreement between the state and the defendant that if he will agree to certain conditions the state will not put him in prison, one can violate that agreement without breaking any laws. Another poster above was right in that many things which are not illegal can violate probation and you don’t get a trial. You will get a hearing before a judge but you are not entitled to a jury. Many times prosecutors will dismiss the underlying charge and simply send a person to prison for violating probation because it is easier and requires less proof than convicting them of a new crime. Here they could not even charge him with a crime all they can do is allege that he violated the terms of his probation. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-on-probation-be-allowed-to-keep-lottery-winnings/428257/48 "2007-12-01T16:02:34Z")
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan] Actually, I believe most state lottos have a condition in them that the holder of the winning ticket must be legally eligible to have a lotto ticket. i.e. no minors, no dead people, and possibly no folks who are under state supervision which does not allow them to gamble or purchase lottery tickets. If that’s the case, then the State Lottery would have proper grounds for not handing over the money, and just recycling it into the next drawing. I need to research that a little further… [/QUOTE] As others have said, it is not a crime to violate your probation, so he would be legally eligible to buy the ticket. His probation violation is a civil matter, with the state as a party.. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-on-probation-be-allowed-to-keep-lottery-winnings/428257/49 "2007-12-01T16:25:10Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] As others have said, it is not a crime to violate your probation, so he would be legally eligible to buy the ticket. His probation violation is a civil matter, with the state as a party.. [/QUOTE] I agree, tentatively, with the first part but not the second. The state does not have to bring a suit in civil court to send you to jail for violating the terms of your probation. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-on-probation-be-allowed-to-keep-lottery-winnings/428257/50 "2007-12-01T16:45:59Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] It may not be a crime, but it does deprive someone who is legally entitled the opportunity of winning that money. As a lottery player, I would be upset if the winners were soaking up the winning tickets when they aren’t even entitled to them. [/QUOTE] No, it doesn’t, not unless there is some regulation or statute that indicates he’s not legally entitled. Otherwise, he is as legally entitled as the next guy, which does not in any way mean the state won’t have a beef with him over his violation of the terms of his probation. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-on-probation-be-allowed-to-keep-lottery-winnings/428257/51 "2007-12-01T21:27:34Z")
[QUOTE=Danimal] No, it’s not. At least not so far as I can find in the [Massachusetts General Laws](http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/) . They can send him to prison _for bank robbery_ because he violated the terms of his probation, but they can’t try him, convict him, or add so much as a single minute to his sentence for any crime called “violation of probation terms” or the equivalent. [/QUOTE] I sit corrected, then. I still disagree that he should be allowed to profit from breaking his probation agreement. That’s a moral wrong, even if it is legal. > [@OtakuLoki](#): > > Shodan, so, should the State refund the purchase price of the other Lottery tickets he’s bought that weren’t winners, or does the State get to benefit from this guy’s “illegal” actions? The State gets to benefit. They didn’t do anything wrong by selling this guy a ticket (as far as they knew at the time of sale), so they incurred no moral wrong. And the practical effort involved in refunding all those tickets is too great to justify it. As a matter of fact, better that the State not refund, because then the moral wrong of buying a lottery ticket when you shouldn’t is automatically punished by the forfeit of the price of a non-winning ticket. Then if someone ineligible wins, the State still gets the money back, so that no one who committed a moral wrong is rewarded. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-on-probation-be-allowed-to-keep-lottery-winnings/428257/52 "2007-12-01T21:33:14Z")
Thanks for answering, **Shodan**. I don’t agree, but I appreciate hearing your thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-on-probation-be-allowed-to-keep-lottery-winnings/428257/53 "2007-12-01T21:57:48Z")
You’re certainly welcome. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-on-probation-be-allowed-to-keep-lottery-winnings/428257.md?page=2)