# Should someone who practiced conversion therapy be allowed into "safe" LGBT group? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 28, 2012, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-who-practiced-conversion-therapy-be-allowed-into-safe-lgbt-group/626539 "2012-06-28T03:23:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-who-practiced-conversion-therapy-be-allowed-into-safe-lgbt-group/626539/21 "2012-06-29T13:31:46Z")
> [@Feyrat](#): > > To me it would be like joining a safe woman’s support group and having one of the men involved a convicted sex offender. Just, no. Too much violation. Yes, exactly. The point of a support group is to provide a safe environment where it’s OK to say anything. Someone coming into the group to purposely disrupt that is absolutely unwelcome. ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-who-practiced-conversion-therapy-be-allowed-into-safe-lgbt-group/626539/22 "2012-06-29T13:59:38Z")
Another HELL NO vote. Conversion therapy is directly and completely opposed to the purpose of such a group. ---
**Author:** ![Imago](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/85e7bf/32.png) [@Imago](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imago)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-who-practiced-conversion-therapy-be-allowed-into-safe-lgbt-group/626539/23 "2012-06-29T18:55:55Z")
LGBT person here. Simply put, fuck conversion therapists, former or current. Keep 'em out of LGBT-safe spaces and if it were up to me they’d be hunted down. No exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![Weeping\_Wyvern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@Weeping\_Wyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weeping_Wyvern)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-who-practiced-conversion-therapy-be-allowed-into-safe-lgbt-group/626539/24 "2012-06-29T19:10:31Z")
In the interests of full disclosure, I am rather conservative on these matters. But that being said, I’m not sure if I really see a problem, even from an LGBT perspective. I don’t know about this particular situation, but in general it seems to me that a person wants to get therapy to change his sexual attractions, and this therapy makes him happier, and he’s not pressuring anyone else to follow his path, then what exactly is wrong with him? ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-who-practiced-conversion-therapy-be-allowed-into-safe-lgbt-group/626539/25 "2012-06-29T19:39:45Z")
Um, obviously that person’s presence is incompatible with the place being a “safe space”. I don’t understand how anyone could disagree on that. Whatever value “safe spaces” have, there’s obviously no value if hostile people are present because the environment is obviously not “safe” anymore. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-who-practiced-conversion-therapy-be-allowed-into-safe-lgbt-group/626539/26 "2012-06-29T19:42:15Z")
> [@Weeping\_Wyvern](#): > > In the interests of full disclosure, I am rather conservative on these matters. > > But that being said, I’m not sure if I really see a problem, even from an LGBT perspective. > > I don’t know about this particular situation, but in general it seems to me that a person wants to get therapy to change his sexual attractions, and this therapy makes him happier, and he’s not pressuring anyone else to follow his path, then what exactly is wrong with him? Lots of things are wrong with him, but since that’s not the topic of the thread, I’m not going to discuss it here. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-who-practiced-conversion-therapy-be-allowed-into-safe-lgbt-group/626539/27 "2012-06-29T19:55:28Z")
> [@Weeping\_Wyvern](#): > > I don’t know about this particular situation, but in general it seems to me that a person wants to get therapy to change his sexual attractions, and this therapy makes him happier, and he’s not pressuring anyone else to follow his path, then what exactly is wrong with him? That’s not what we’re talking about here. It’s not a gay person getting conversion therapy, it’s a straight person who _does_ conversion therapy. Someone telling me to pray the gay away when all I wanted was a place to talk about how my family hates my girlfriend is **NOT** what a safe space is about. To reiterate, I’m not Christian, I don’t believe there’s anything wrong with my orientation, and any attempts to convert me on either front are unwelcome. Frankly, I believe proselytizing is immoral. That’s not even getting into the fact that conversion therapy is a fraud that doesn’t work and doesn’t actually make people happier. ---
**Author:** ![Weeping\_Wyvern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@Weeping\_Wyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weeping_Wyvern)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-who-practiced-conversion-therapy-be-allowed-into-safe-lgbt-group/626539/28 "2012-06-29T19:57:52Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > That’s not what we’re talking about here. It’s not a gay person getting conversion therapy, it’s a straight person who _does_ conversion therapy. Someone telling me to pray the gay away when all I wanted was a place to talk about how my family hates my girlfriend is **NOT** what a safe space is about. To reiterate, I’m not Christian, I don’t believe there’s anything wrong with my orientation, and any attempts to convert me on either front are unwelcome. Frankly, I believe proselytizing is immoral. I guess you missed the part about “not pressuring anyone else to follow his path”. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-who-practiced-conversion-therapy-be-allowed-into-safe-lgbt-group/626539/29 "2012-06-29T20:01:07Z")
> [@Weeping\_Wyvern](#): > > I guess you missed the part about “not pressuring anyone else to follow his path”. Why exactly does a straight conversion therapist attend a support group for LGBT then? ---
**Author:** ![Weeping\_Wyvern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@Weeping\_Wyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weeping_Wyvern)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-who-practiced-conversion-therapy-be-allowed-into-safe-lgbt-group/626539/30 "2012-06-29T20:08:06Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > Why exactly does a straight conversion therapist attend a support group for LGBT then? Maybe he’s perfectly happy to affirm the homosexuality of those who want to keep it, just like he is perfectly happy to try to change the homosexuality of those who want to change it. I doubt many people are in that category, sure, but you still shouldn’t automatically assume he’s evil. And he might not even be straight himself, haha. Maybe gay conversion therapists might want to come to a support group to get some support of their own. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-who-practiced-conversion-therapy-be-allowed-into-safe-lgbt-group/626539/31 "2012-06-29T20:12:01Z")
I imagine they would be as welcome at a LGTB group as a Jehovah’s witness is at my door. Which is not at all. Sure the Jehovah’s witness could be showing up because they think I’m cool to hang out with but I’ll take the much better odds that they are there to sell me on something I have no interest in. Sucks my bigoted views lock me out of chilling with that one cool JW but I’m OK with that. So really what purpose does someone who believes in conversion therapy have at a LGTB group? As the chances are they are just showing up to sell members of that group on something they have no interest in, I think it’s fine for them to be excluded. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-who-practiced-conversion-therapy-be-allowed-into-safe-lgbt-group/626539/32 "2012-06-29T20:29:58Z")
You’re reaching. You are even aware that you are: > [@Weeping\_Wyvern](#): > > I doubt many people are in that category, sure, > [@](#): > > but you still shouldn’t automatically assume he’s evil. I’m not in the habit of assuming evilness in people I barely know. I do assert that I would not welcome such a person in a LGBT support group. I find it quite naive to presume that a guy who admits that he still believes in and practices conversion therapy has any other reason for attending a queer support group. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-who-practiced-conversion-therapy-be-allowed-into-safe-lgbt-group/626539/33 "2012-06-29T20:30:15Z")
No way. Odds of him being there for neutral to good reasons are totally and incontrovertably outweighed by the far more likely reasons for him to be there that involve direct shitting in people’s cheerios. Once that comment about “not being a Christian” so you (and presumably others) wouldn’t understand came out, then even that slight chance seems gone. Fuck that all sideways: Hell No. On the flip side, if you want to be diplomatic, as you show him to the door, you can tell him you’ll take a stack of his cards, and that if anyone comes to your safe place and specifically and without prompting requests information on “discipleship” that you’ll make sure they know he’s out there. How is this even a question? Damn - I’m the straightest person I know (ok maybe my husband is straighter) but like someone said upthread, that would be like inviting a wife-beater to show up at the abuse support group, give the keynote speech and then stay on for huggles afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-who-practiced-conversion-therapy-be-allowed-into-safe-lgbt-group/626539/34 "2012-06-29T21:06:48Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > No way. Odds of him being there for neutral to good reasons are totally and incontrovertably outweighed by the far more likely reasons for him to be there that involve direct shitting in people’s cheerios. > > Once that comment about “not being a Christian” so you (and presumably others) wouldn’t understand came out, then even that slight chance seems gone. > > Fuck that all sideways: Hell No. > > On the flip side, if you want to be diplomatic, as you show him to the door, you can tell him you’ll take a stack of his cards, and that if anyone comes to your safe place and specifically and without prompting requests information on “discipleship” that you’ll make sure they know he’s out there. > > How is this even a question? Damn - I’m the straightest person I know (ok maybe my husband is straighter) but like someone said upthread, that would be like inviting a wife-beater to show up at the abuse support group, give the keynote speech and then stay on for huggles afterwards. Wow. I had this long reply ready to go, and then I read yours, and realize you said everything I wanted to say. The only positive reason I could see is to allow those who already don’t want to be gay to be able to change, but, if that’s the case, they would have already sought out someone, and wouldn’t be looking for them in a group touted as safe. Someone who wants you to change who you are is not safe. EDIT: By positive, I mean non-nefarious. It’s still negative based on the studies that show it doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-who-practiced-conversion-therapy-be-allowed-into-safe-lgbt-group/626539/35 "2012-06-29T21:25:28Z")
Thank you for more confirmation. I should point out that I said this person “has in the past practiced conversion therapy” and “has not had some kind of change of heart, but rather still considers this practice a success” (meaning he thinks what he practiced was successful). He has not said he is now a currently practicing conversion therapist. I still see this as a huge problem. ---
**Author:** ![mister\_nyx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@mister\_nyx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mister_nyx)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-who-practiced-conversion-therapy-be-allowed-into-safe-lgbt-group/626539/36 "2012-06-29T21:34:02Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > I still see this as a huge problem. It is still a huge problem. What’s he trying to invade a safe space for, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-who-practiced-conversion-therapy-be-allowed-into-safe-lgbt-group/626539/37 "2012-06-29T21:43:11Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > Also, in further conversation, the converter told me “well, we use the word ‘discipleship’” rather than “conversion therapy”. I’d love to hear more about this “discipleship.” Think he’d mind being the subject of some “enhanced interrogation”? ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-who-practiced-conversion-therapy-be-allowed-into-safe-lgbt-group/626539/38 "2012-06-29T21:49:35Z")
I could offer to show him my “input stimulus devices” while \*\*Turnip \*\*is “interviewing” him! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-who-practiced-conversion-therapy-be-allowed-into-safe-lgbt-group/626539/39 "2012-06-29T22:49:47Z")
Did he happen to mention why he wants to attend the group? ---
**Author:** ![Myrnalene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@Myrnalene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myrnalene)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-who-practiced-conversion-therapy-be-allowed-into-safe-lgbt-group/626539/40 "2012-06-30T00:17:55Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The only positive reason I could see is to allow those who already don’t want to be gay to be able to change, but, if that’s the case, they would have already sought out someone, and wouldn’t be looking for them in a group touted as safe. Also, _it doesn’t work._ So. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-someone-who-practiced-conversion-therapy-be-allowed-into-safe-lgbt-group/626539.md?page=1)