# Should sports arenas be left to the private sector? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 1, 2016, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-sports-arenas-be-left-to-the-private-sector/764672 "2016-09-01T16:48:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2024, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-sports-arenas-be-left-to-the-private-sector/764672/141 "2024-06-21T00:33:39Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > It’s not at all uncommon for a team not to play in the city it’s named for - and sportscasts don’t mention Arlington when they talk about the Dallas Cowboys. Or for that matter the Texas Rangers, who also play in Arlington but at least didn’t use the Dallas name. (For those wondering WHY the Cowboys and Rangers play there, it’s right in between Dallas and Fort Worth.) ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2024, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-sports-arenas-be-left-to-the-private-sector/764672/142 "2024-06-21T16:31:13Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Shopping centers are different. They dont benefit multimillionaire team owners. Replace “shopping center” with “WalMart” and you have exactly the same situation. In fact, if you travel around America, you will find many WalMarts built just outside the city limits of the small towns they serve. Why? Because WalMart doesn’t want to pay the real estate taxes, or charge customers the city sales tax. In Missouri, cities can declare a neighborhood “blighted” and give a property tax abatement to a developer willing to come in. Right in my own affluent suburb, we had a Target move in to such an area, and when the abatement ran out, they built a new store a mile away in a new blighted area (same city) with a new tax abatement. When that abatement runs out, there’s a suburb next door which is ready and willing to blight a neighborhood as soon as a developer lines up a Target or WalMart as an anchorr. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2024, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-sports-arenas-be-left-to-the-private-sector/764672/143 "2024-06-21T18:36:22Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Because WalMart doesn’t want to pay the real estate taxes, or charge customers the city sales tax. Most real estate taxes are county wide, and the bulk of sales taxes are state wide. Sure some big cities may tack on a 1/2%, but I sincerely doubt many “small towns” do. In any case, only a handful of sports fan benefit, while everyone needs groceries. ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-sports-arenas-be-left-to-the-private-sector/764672/144 "2024-07-24T02:25:26Z")
please note that all athletes (not owners) have city income taxes deducted from their pay that goes back to city, in fact even more if a player actually lives in the city ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-sports-arenas-be-left-to-the-private-sector/764672/145 "2024-07-24T02:29:28Z")
talk to St Louis about Rams, where they’re stuck with unusable stadium ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2024, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-sports-arenas-be-left-to-the-private-sector/764672/146 "2024-07-24T03:00:11Z")
and who also destroyed the USFL ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2024, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-sports-arenas-be-left-to-the-private-sector/764672/147 "2024-07-31T17:58:39Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > In Missouri, cities can declare a neighborhood “blighted” and give a property tax abatement to a developer willing to come in. Right in my own affluent suburb, we had a Target move in to such an area, and when the abatement ran out, they built a new store a mile away in a new blighted area (same city) with a new tax abatement. When that abatement runs out, there’s a suburb next door which is ready and willing to blight a neighborhood as soon as a developer lines up a Target or WalMart as an anchorr. When Target moved, did any business move into its old building, or did that neighborhood become reenblightified? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2024, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-sports-arenas-be-left-to-the-private-sector/764672/148 "2024-07-31T20:43:48Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > When Target moved, did any business move into its old building, or did that neighborhood become reenblightified? It was torn down and a new developer put in a condo development. I’m sure that developer got a tax break, at least from the property being rezoned from commercial to residential. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2024, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-sports-arenas-be-left-to-the-private-sector/764672/149 "2024-08-11T22:42:20Z")
> In a letter sent to team owners Dee and Jimmy Haslam, Cuyahoga County officials said Sunday they’re backing a proposed $1.2 billion renovation of the team’s current stadium and are committed to keeping the NFL franchise in downtown Cleveland “for generations to come.”… > The Browns’ proposal came after **the city of Cleveland submitted giving $461 million** toward a massive renovation of the current 65,000-seat stadium, which was built in 1999, and the re-development of its surrounding property. > **[Browns' plans for move to new dome stadium hits snag as county backs city's...](https://apnews.com/article/cleveland-browns-stadium-66055b5ad70ae6bf18e5057927dbba6d)** > > The Browns’ proposal to leave the lakefront and play in a new domed stadium in Cleveland’s suburbs has hit a major snag. Nice that Cleveland has an extra half billion dollars in petty cash… ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2024, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-sports-arenas-be-left-to-the-private-sector/764672/150 "2024-08-14T15:22:35Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > In a letter sent to team owners Dee and Jimmy Haslam, Cuyahoga County officials said Sunday they’re backing a proposed $1.2 billion renovation of the team’s current stadium and are committed to keeping the NFL franchise in downtown Cleveland “for generations to come.”… By “Generations” they mean “for about twenty years and then we’ll demand a new stadium.” ---
**Author:** ![dougrb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@dougrb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougrb)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2024, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-sports-arenas-be-left-to-the-private-sector/764672/151 "2024-08-26T22:38:13Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Here goes the first salvo from Kansas… And Jackson County isn’t helping. > **[Jackson County lawmakers reject Chiefs-only sales tax measure aimed at saving...](https://www.kcur.org/politics-elections-and-government/2024-08-26/jackson-co-could-put-chiefs-only-sales-tax-on-the-ballot-to-keep-stadium-talks-alive)** > > The Jackson County Legislature voted Monday against placing the proposed sales tax on the November ballot. It would have only supported the Chiefs in a play to keep the team in Missouri, leaving negotiations with the Royals to Kansas City and... ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-sports-arenas-be-left-to-the-private-sector/764672/152 "2024-08-30T22:31:55Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > It was played that way in San Diego (Chargers) and Oakland (A’s, Warriors, Raiders) where that strategy did not work, so the owner found another sap/city to build them a new facility. RE: A’s/Raiders - Las Vegas might be the one exception to this rule. The city is very heavily dependent on tourist revenue and stuff that brings in more tourists _can be_ a boon to the city. I’m not saying it always is - there is a cost/benefit to be done, but Vegas is a unique case. The various KCs and Cleveland situations should be looking at very different economics. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2024, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-sports-arenas-be-left-to-the-private-sector/764672/153 "2024-08-30T22:49:37Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > The city is very heavily dependent on tourist revenue and stuff that brings in more tourists _can be_ a boon to the city. I’m not saying it always is - there is a cost/benefit to be done, but Vegas is a unique case. Also worth noting, in both the cases of the Raiders’ stadium (Allegiant Stadium) and the proposed A’s stadium (anticipated to begin construction next year), while public funding was involved, most of the cost was/will be paid through private means. Allegiant cost $1.9 billion, of which $750 million was taxpayer-provided (apparently, a bond issuance, to be paid off through a hotel room tax). The A’s stadium is projected to cost $1.5 billion, with the current agreement stating that $380 million will come from public funding (currently proposed as a combination of tax credits and a bond issuance). ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-sports-arenas-be-left-to-the-private-sector/764672/154 "2024-08-31T01:16:34Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Las Vegas might be the one exception to this rule. The city is very heavily dependent on tourist revenue and stuff that brings in more tourists _can be_ a boon to the city. Why would I want to go to Las Vegas to watch a football game? Vegas built itself on entertainment you couldn’t get anywhere else - starting with sin, Sinatra and slot machines right up to Cirque du Soleil, Adele, and the Sphere. I can see a pro football game in Green Bay, Kansas City, or Jacksonville. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-sports-arenas-be-left-to-the-private-sector/764672/155 "2024-08-31T01:21:00Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Why would I want to go to Las Vegas to watch a football game? I imagine that no small number of football fans happily build a Vegas trip around attending a road game for their favorite team, as well as going to the casinos, shows, etc. But, that said, many of them might have gone to Vegas anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-sports-arenas-be-left-to-the-private-sector/764672/156 "2024-08-31T11:12:32Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > I can see a pro football game in Green Bay, Kansas City, or Jacksonville. Yes, but if you’re a Jags fan and you plan to splurge on 1 road trip game this year, are you going to KC or Sin City? Especially when the weather gets colder up North. > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > But, that said, many of them might have gone to Vegas anyway. But some non-zero number probably wouldn’t have. I actually doubt that it will ever be a true money-maker for the city, but they’ll get closer to break-even than most. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2024, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-sports-arenas-be-left-to-the-private-sector/764672/157 "2024-08-31T15:26:28Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Why would I want to go to Las Vegas to watch a football game? Football? Never. But I will happily (post-retirement) build a multi-day trip to Vegas around an As homestand against a team I root for. Any time the Dodgers, Padres or Mariners are there, so am I. I will also show up to boo the Yankees, Angels or Asterisks. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-sports-arenas-be-left-to-the-private-sector/764672/158 "2024-09-17T16:11:17Z")
Vegas could also use a stadium for other tourist-attracting events (e.g. massive concerts) as they have the infrastructure in place. Mostly I wonder how conducive the weather is to outdoor sporting events (or indeed massive concerts), but at a glance it looks like only the summer months are likely to be problematic. There’s also the issue of water… ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-sports-arenas-be-left-to-the-private-sector/764672/159 "2024-09-17T16:27:55Z")
Vegas already has an enclosed football stadium and the Sphere, not to mention a couple of good sized arenas. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2024, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-sports-arenas-be-left-to-the-private-sector/764672/160 "2024-09-17T16:55:15Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Vegas already has an enclosed football stadium and the Sphere Exactly. In addition, while ground has not yet been broken on it, the [planned baseball stadium](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Las_Vegas_Stadium) for the A’s when they relocate from Oakland will also be enclosed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-sports-arenas-be-left-to-the-private-sector/764672.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-sports-arenas-be-left-to-the-private-sector/764672.md?page=9)