# Should Stanley "Tookie" Williams Die? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 27, 2005, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-stanley-tookie-williams-die/332863 "2005-11-27T01:45:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-stanley-tookie-williams-die/332863/81 "2005-12-13T15:29:59Z")
So why was the celebrity crowd so enamored with this particular murderer? I mean, I’m on the fence regarding the death penalty, and if someone wants to convince me that the DP is not a good idea, they picked the wrong poster boy. I guess I could understand a statement from the anti-DP crowd that says something like “we think the DP is a bad idea, so much so that we’re against it even in the case of Tookie.” But they keep using people like Tookie and Mumia as their poster boys. That can only alienate them from those of us who are not already in their camp. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-stanley-tookie-williams-die/332863/82 "2005-12-13T18:13:52Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > nope ☹ > i see no humor…i suppose you will meet your own death with a pithy one liner? Keeping with the Arnold theme how about saying _“I’ll be back!”_ right as I take my last breath!😛 [Thats](http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-execution13dec13,1,4012764.story?track=mostemailedlink&ctrack=1&cset=true) the way the Tookie crumbles! ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-stanley-tookie-williams-die/332863/83 "2005-12-13T22:45:55Z")
For a really pithy one-liner, you have to go back to Pomona, California, in 1979. To a 7-11 store. _"Williams ordered Owens into a back room at gunpoint, shot out a security monitor, then ordered, “Get down on your knees, (expletive),” and shot him twice in the back, according to testimony. Williams “later laughed about it as he was eating his hamburger,” Martin says._\* I doubt ‘Tookie’ approached such heights of eloquence on _this_ occasion. \*from [CNN.com](http://CNN.com). ---
**Author:** ![Jill\_s\_Fruitcake\_Mine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Jill\_s\_Fruitcake\_Mine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jill_s_Fruitcake_Mine)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2005, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-stanley-tookie-williams-die/332863/84 "2005-12-13T22:55:52Z")
It’s a real shame he can’t see his 20+ years of delay as an undeserved gift from the legal system because it is. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-stanley-tookie-williams-die/332863/85 "2005-12-14T03:54:42Z")
> [@](#): > > So why was the celebrity crowd so enamored with this particular murderer? I mean, I’m on the fence regarding the death penalty, and if someone wants to convince me that the DP is not a good idea, they picked the wrong poster boy. > > I guess I could understand a statement from the anti-DP crowd that says something like “we think the DP is a bad idea, so much so that we’re against it even in the case of Tookie.” But they keep using people like Tookie and Mumia as their poster boys. That can only alienate them from those of us who are not already in their camp. People like Williams and Mumia were leaders, albeit of criminal groups. They had experience in organizing other people to follow their lead. They just switched their intelligence, charisma, leadership skills, etc from a goal of crime to a new goal of saving their butt. Another aspect is that some protesters (and I’ll repeat I’m only talking about some protesters) are in it more for the act of protesting itself more than for the actual cause. If these people took up a legitimate cause, they might face the risk of having the general public agree with them and actually resolve the issue. For them it would be a letdown if they were protesting on behalf of somebody in prison and the governor said, _“Wow, you’re right, that guy was completely railroaded. I’m commuting his sentence and releasing him today. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. You can now resume your normal lives with the knowledge that you helped save this man.”_ At this point, most of the protesters would give each other hugs or high fives and go home happy. But a handful would be thinking, _“That’s it? Where are all the cameras and interviewers? And nobody’s hitting my website anymore. Dammit, what am I going to do with my free time now?”_ For these people, it’s best if they pick a hopeless cause where there’s no danger of actually winning, so they can drag it out for months or years and prolong the experience. Even if the focus of their passion dies, they can just jump on a new bandwagon and keep the protest alive. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2005, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-stanley-tookie-williams-die/332863/86 "2005-12-21T11:53:59Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > nope ☹ > > i see no humor…i suppose you will meet your own death with a pithy one liner? i didn’t think of it either! I do, however, wisht I had!!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-stanley-tookie-williams-die/332863.md?page=4)